posted
I will readily admit that this is a very tricky passage and there has apparently been a lot of debate and alot of criticism of this scripture. Indulge me for a moment though in a couple of other points. Before you read, this is again based on the conclusion I've made after studying it that the Bible is internally consistant. If you don't believe that the Bible is internally consistant, then none of this really matters since it's just all made up anyway. But that's a whole other discussion.
1. As I stated above, Jewish law expressly forbade "making children pass through the fire" or offering human sacrifice. 2. The Judges, including Jephthah were selected by God to deliver or serve as Judge for the Jews. This would necessitate that person being "righteous" or following God's law. 3. The account also says that God's spirit came over Jeptha when he made the vow. This would preclude the vow being unjust. 4. The only other example I can think of where human sacrifice was involved in a test of faith was when Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac. When it came down to it, God didn't let that happen. He didn't require the actual murder of a child to prove faithfulness. And this was before the Law. 5. Burnt offerings symbolized whole devotion to God and accompanied many ceremonies likely including the presentation of a child for temple service. Jephthah may have been using the term "burnt offering" to denote the wholeness of the dedication he would make of whoever met him. 6. My translation says that the "daughters of Isreal would go to give commendation to the daughter of Jephtah." This to me suggests that she was still alive at this point. 7. In addition to the term "burnt offering", Jeptha also says that this person who meets him "must also become Jehovah's". Become Jehovah's could easily mean being dedicated to his service.
Again, I admit there is no direct evidence in the passage to back this up. I still believe though that the fact that the daughter did not bewail her impending death, but rather her virginity suggests she was not going to be roasted. I'm also taking the Bible as a whole and using some reasoning. And it comes down to a belief in the consistancy of the Bible based on a study of the rest of it.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
Over lunch, I ran downstairs to the adult library and picked out a half-dozen other versions of the Bible.
The exact translations vary, of course, from Bible to Bible (no wonder there are so many fights about what it says, nobody can TELL!), so it is really impossible to know for sure what happened here, although in both of the annotated Bibles I looked at, the annotators seem to hold my opinion that Jepthah did in fact kill his daughter (who was not really a child, but probably an adult), although one took the annual lamentations to mean that this had been a BAD thing to have done -- rather as a lesson on making rash promises to God.
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
Try old Zoroastrian myth. Or if you can find them, Assyrian mythology and the Egyptian Aten-worship.
Of course, there are many similarities among the 'dying and reborn gods' mythological customs, too... Like Osiris, Dionysus, Orpheus, The Green Man, Apollonius of Tyria, etc.
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
Or the whole thing where the baby gets put in the river and is raised in one group, but later returns to where he started to fulfill his destiny, or whatever. The Bible has Moses doing it. Other stories based on the same premise include that of Oedipus, some other Greek one I forget, I think Gilgamesh, the first king of Persia whose name I also forget... Basically, the first part of the Bible is a mythology, no different from any other, except in that people still believe in it.
BTW, since the whole thing w/ Jephtah almost certainly never happened, maybe they couldn't decide whether or not to have him kill the girl, or just ruin her life, so the authors left it ambiguous... :-)
------------------ "Compared to you, every male on this ship is an expert on women!" -Geordi LaForge to Wesley Crusher, TNG: "Sarek"
posted
What form of Buddhism are you talking about, TSN?
------------------ "Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?" -- M. Doughty
posted
As this "discussion" has degenerated into a pathetic mythological debate about books written by ignorant people thousands of years ago, the truth of whose contents are highly questionable(Zorastrians, I mean, for fucks sake!! It sounds like something out Zelda64!!), I hereby withdraw any previous remarks I made and leave you to your idle chatterings. I'm sure I'll be missed, but logic has no place here.
------------------ "Try not. Do. Or Do not. There is no try." -Yoda, Jedi Master.
posted
Gurgeh: Actually, there has been a surprising lack of illogic so far, considering the theological (and, thus, inherently illogical) nature of the discussion...
Sol: Erm... I don't know. I'm not really all that familiar w/ the internal workings of Buddhism. The point I was going for is how a group can see something in one group while totally ignoring the sae quality in themselves. Christians can see that ol' Siddhartha Gautama was a normal guy who was elevated to the level of a god by his followers, but most of them would never even consider the possibility that the same thing could have happened to Mr. Jesus from Nazareth, Judea.
------------------ "Compared to you, every male on this ship is an expert on women!" -Geordi LaForge to Wesley Crusher, TNG: "Sarek"
posted
Well, he was elevated to the level of the Buddha, which isn't the same thing.
Though both do involve improbable metaphysical leaps.
------------------ "Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?" -- M. Doughty
posted
Gurgeh, just out of random curiosity, what's your problem with Zorastrians? I'm just trying to determine if your are either ignorant or just plain stupid. Please fill me in at your earliest convenience.
This may help bring you up to speed, it shows the regions ruled by Persian (Zorastrian) Emperors and Kings. If you want more, take a trip to a major library. http://solareclipse.net/fmmp/persia.jpg
------------------ "Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
[This message has been edited by Daryus Aden (edited April 24, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Daryus Aden (edited April 24, 2000).]
posted
It seems I have been dragged back into the fray. First of Two: Assimilate this \/ !!!
My problem isn't with Zorastrians in particular, I just don't see the point in sifting through old history books whose contents are thousands of years old and have probably been expanded far beyond what actually may have occurred. Just as TSN said, theology is inherently illogical, this is my gripe with this thread.
------------------ "Try not. Do. Or Do not. There is no try." -Yoda, Jedi Master.
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