posted
Really...I shouldn't be permitted to watch TV. This kind of thing makes me think about stuff and reconsider my morals. I watched a documentary on Death Row Inmates and although it didn't approach the morality of it, it still made me think about it. I'm sort of torn about it.
Most people who are on death row are there because of tortuous, grotesque, and horrific crimes like murder and rape. But when I think about it, aren't the prison officials committing the same crime when they 'pull the switch', or 'give the injection', or drop those crystal things in chemicals (death by gas). Why aren't they punished? Wasn't the US Constitution centered around the Ten Commandments? If I recall correctly, one of the Ten Commandments says 'Thou shalt not kill'. Sometimes I believe we aren't any better than the criminal when we condone the death sentence.
Yeah, I know we can't support criminals with life sentences. It's too expensive. But can't they work? What's really funny is that I'm loosing my job to another plant that has to turn to prison facilities for employees. The can work to support themselves. They could be farming to feed themselves. There's all kinds of things they could do (besides taking jobs from people with educations and families to support). Give them minimum wage jobs. Yeah, we might have to pay extra for more prison guards, but if you think about it...the money saved from them supporting themselves will pay for the guards.
And for all of those without life sentences - give them all psychological evaluations and treatments that continue throughout their terms and even for a period of time afterwards. All of the Parole/Probation Officers should be required to have psychology degrees/training to support that. That's one type of reform. There's also nothing wrong with the prisoners getting an education while they are in prison either. Make it mandatory! Work of the day, educate of the night. When the reformed criminal is released they stand a much better chance of leading a good life afterwards. They need to be made to use their minds and bodies for positive things instead of just sitting there.
Then for those who's crimes were worthy of death sentences (and/or the uncontrollable inmates) - ship them off to an island where there is no chance of escape. Hell, build an island. Let them live like the animals they behave like. They can worry about how to survive and if they are going to be killed - sort of 'touch�'.
That documentary I watched was mostly about prison conditions. They made some good points, but I'm not sure if the pro's would outweigh the con's (no pun intended). The inmates claim that the bad conditions cause a deep seated anger that builds and when they are released their anger will be released too. That may be true, but I'm not too fond of giving them better living conditions than the people on welfare. Hell, if that happened people would be committing crimes to get into prison. I can hear it now..."Hey, I won't have to worry about where my next meal is coming from" - "I'll be warm through the winter" - "We have televisions and physical fitness centers" - "I can live better in prison than I can being free".
I'm not saying that the prisoners aren't violated in the facilities...that's a whole horse of another color. Those issues can be dealt with and usually are.
At any rate, if anyone asked me if I supported the death sentence (before the documentary) I would have still said 'I'm not sure how I feel about it'. After the documentary...'I'm leaning more towards no'.
posted
"Most people who are on death row are there because of tortuous, grotesque, and horrific crimes like murder and rape"
Why let them have the chance to commit them again?
------------------ "Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
posted
"Then for those who's crimes were worthy of death sentences (and/or the uncontrollable inmates) - ship them off to an island where there is no chance of escape. Hell, build an island. Let them live like the animals they behave like."
posted
I once saw a show about homophobia, and they had this one guy talking about how if they shipped off all the gays to some island, the world would be "a better place".
Your proposal isn't much less absurd.
------------------ "Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
posted
It should be read as 'Thou shalt not murder.' The ancient Hebrew word for kill and murder is the same, the context determined which meaning was to be used.
How can a person accept God's Word saying 'Thou shalt not kill.' when he had the Israelites slaughter the Palastinians?
Taking the meaning of murder then you can have the eye for and eye, and kill the murders. This makes capital punishment work.
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking"
posted
Well, but that means you've got to make the assumption that God is going by our current law-enforcement definition of the word "murder", and that he didn't mean:
Man: "Hi, God, what does this Commandment mean?"
God: "It means you shouldn't kill people."
Man: "Oh, but doesn't this word mean murder? And wait, you told me to go kill those Palestinians!"
God: "Well, since I told you to kill the Palestinians, it's okay, because I'm God and I say so! If you do it for any other reason then my direct order, it's murder."
Man: "Uh ... ok."
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000
posted
Of course, it could all be a misspelling of the french merde, in which case we'd all be sinners. And I'd be certainly going to hell after that double burrito I had for supper...
------------------ "Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
posted
"Yeah, I know we can't support criminals with life sentences. It's too expensive."
It's much more expensive to execute someone than it is to keep them in a cage since that damned due process clause started being used.
The death penalty as instituted today in the United States is little more than public revenge.
------------------ Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit? ~C. Montgomery Burns
posted
Well, don't forget, that the Bible also says it's okay to enslave citizens of neighboring countries; sell your daughter into slavery; kill your neighbor if he works on Sunday; or stone your mother if she makes an article of clothing out of two different threads. Oh, yeah, touching the skin of a dead pig is bad too, so does that mean the NFL is fucked?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000
posted
Why does the Bible have to be the be-all and end-all of any moral or ethical argument? JeffK's post shows how contradictory it is, for one thing. There are some things which transcend what's written in a book.
I believe no human being should have the right to harm or kill another human being. The fact that they do, every day, in a huge variety of inventive and unpleasant ways, just shows how far we have to go as a species. But once you start killing off anyone who doesn't conform exactly to your standards, there's no end to it.
------------------ Luke Ford: "What's it like having a dick in your ass?"
Zoe: "Imagine taking your bottom lip and pulling it over the top of your head. You get used to it but it does hurt."
posted
You know, we need something to show the value we place on human life. If I go out and bomb some federal building, and kill 168 innocents, and get a mediocre punishment, how is that a deterrent for it to happen again? You can get more time for trafficking cocaine than murdering a human being.
Is bringing cocaine into a country worse than killing someone?
And I think it's insane to compare the officials who authorize the use of lethal means to the murderers themselves. It's their job. They're not the ones who are going "Hmm, okay, let's kill this dude". They're not making the decision.
They have as much say in it as a police officer does when giving you a speeding ticket. He (for the most part) is giving you a ticket because you broke the law. You're not going to contest it to him, you'll go to court. They're both a matter of the law, and not of the instruments that implement them.
And as for the whole "God say murder = bad" argument,
Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed."
Exodus 21:12 "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death."
Numbers 35:31 "Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death."
Numbers 35:33 "So you shall not pollute the land where you are; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it."
Not that this means anything. The bible is so very contradictory that there are an equal number of incidents in which killing is said to be bad, and that YHWH doesn't like it much.
------------------ "Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
posted
Okay...Let's leave the Bible out of it for a few minutes - since contradictions seem to be coming out. I guess the best thing to say is that it depends on how your religion interprets it.
The whole death sentence thing is barbaric.
I can honestly sit here and say that if a family member of mine were murdered, I still wouldn't be able to 'pull the switch'. I would be one very angry person - yes...but to witness this person's death and know that I participated the agony the murderer is going to feel is something I don't think I could live with. Is it really fair to make another family feel what my family feels in the loss? Maybe I'm being too compassionate.
Imagine an inmate being drug, kicking and screaming, to the death chamber - he's begging for mercy - his family is begging for his mercy...Could you 'pull the switch'? And be comfortable with the fact that you did do it?
Isn't death the easy way out too? Why not make them live with the knowledge of what they have done? And, of course, this brings me back to one of my previous arguments..."Why give them the luxuries that our own poverty stricken people don't have?" And again...I don't think a barren, desolate, island is out of the question. Nobody said it has to be the size of Gilligans Island - or as nice.
As for the opinion you expressed earlier, Ultra, murderer's have killed people and destroyed families. In general, homosexuals don't. That is a decision they make that influences their own lives - they aren't taking someone else's life. There is a major difference IMO.
[This message has been edited by MsChris (edited December 30, 2000).]
posted
You know what would be best? If murders never happened but that's about as likely to occur as Bill Gates admit he's just a thief.
Capital Punishment as a crime deterrent sucks from what the statistics and survies say. And if according to how most murders occur, "crimes of passion" then they aren't going to think about that before grabbing that gun or knife.
That being said, throwing someone in prison for life won't do shit either. How bad is crime in the world? It doesn't matter if you kill them by the 1000's or jail them for life, there will still be alot more crime than either side assumes. Ask nearly any criminal in or out of prison, and they'll say they think/thought they would never get caught. They are/were too smart or would escape the cops.
Some criminals need to be executed. Those who can't be reformed, can't stay in prison without being a danger to inmates and guards, and are just too dangerous to be allowed to live. The rest can be housed in jail, but not given the easy life like this.
------------------ Three important questions to ask an alien before having sex: (1) Are you carrying any diseases which might be communicable to humans? (2) Have you had sex with any high-risk partners in the past six months? (3) Which one is your mouth?
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