While shooting at protesters "MAYBE" wrong**, provoking an "standoff" with one side arm with guns and other with mainly rocks is just STUPID!
Palestinians protesters have the choice to backoff if they're using their common sense! Palestinians have the choice to tell their family not to go to these violent protest instead they encourage and fuel the hatred! Like I said before, do they have access to TV or newspapers? YES! Then let me ask how many protest ended in bloodshed had happen already, and how many of these are broadcast all over newspapers, and TV? And yet they don't have slightest clue to backoff? And how about learning about your mistakes from history? Plenty of history here, FREAKING TV SHOWED AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT YOU GET KILLED FOR THROWING ROCKS AT OFFICERS!!!!
When blaming the Israelies for shooting these so-called innocent people, have Palestinians consider the fact that it can be avoided in the first place if they think straight?
What have banks learn over the years? They learn that while stopping a robbery might be the heroic or moral thing to do, ultimately, the SMART WAY is to give the damn money, and deal with the situation later with well thought out plan.
Fine, Palestinians can be strong headed, march into every protest proud with a vangence. One more hot-headed person dead, one more idotic action carry out and one more stupid thing for ME to laugh at!
** And who said they only threw rocks? Didn't we forget about that certain reporter that got shoot IN THE EXCHANGE OF SMALL ARM FIRE? How about them sniper shots reported again and again in these protest? And have we consider that Israelies officers were greatly out-numbered by blood-thrusty mob who would use anything at hand as weapons? How about Palestinians funeral parade carry out on TV that ended in cereomonial gunfires to remember the dead, and you tell me they got nothing but rocks to throw at?
------------------ What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend? - With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.
[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 22, 2001).]
quote:FREAKING TV SHOWED AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT YOU GET KILLED FOR THROWING ROCKS AT OFFICERS!!!!
In what world should protesters get killed for throwing rocks at at members of the army dressed in kevlar?
I still say that mass civil disobedience would work better. However I have my doubts on if the army of Isreal would should show restraint and not fire into a mass crowd of protestors no matter what they were doing. Even rubber bullets kill.
------------------ I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery! ~ C. Montgomery Burns
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
It's rather ironic that a nation who had been displaced so many times in their history gained their own country by displacing another large group of people from their homeland.
On another point, how many Palestinians are going to have to die before we can officially call what the Israelis are doing a 'holocaust'? I support the right of Israel to defend itself, but sending in the F16s to retaliate against a suicide bomber is disproportionate and I'll go as far as to say a war crime. If it was the other way around and the Israelis were the one's throwing stones with the Palestinians sending in the tanks and planes, then the world would have sent in troops by now to save them.
We go on and on about the fate that the Jewish race met at the hand of the Nazi's. It is also absolutely right that we should never forget because the world should never be allowed to forget what one man is capable of inflicting upon another. It does however seem that the Jewish leadership hasn't learned any lessons from that itself. It is now going and blowing up peoples homes and killing en masse for the acts of a suicide bomber - I think these are acts of which the Nazi's themselves would have been proud.
------------------ The Worlds Ten Greatest 'Fucks' #10
Where's all that fucking water coming from? - Captain of Titanic
Yeah, those kids at Kent State deserved what they got.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** Card-Carrying Member of the FlareAPAO *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
Pardon, but didn't "Palestinian" become a nationality only after the Brits drew lines on a map and labeled one section "Palestine?" Wasn't that area pretty much culturally homogenous before then, what with the Ottoman Empire and all?
(It's amazing how many problems have been caused by colonial powers' arbitrary boundaries.)
------------------ The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
The Ottoman empire was pretty divided. It was a huge empire, but plagued by the same cultural and religious conflict which the individual countries are facing now, which is why after World War 1, they could not survive. I'm not sure whether it was under Versailles or some other post World War 1 treaty, but the empire was split, hence no more Ottoman Empire.
Palestine was always there, just part of the Ottoman Empire, but they always considered themselves Palestinians. It's just that some of their land was taken and called Israel and that's when the boundaries became more pronounced. I'll see if I can find something that supports this. http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Story151.html
This article does hint at the fact that they did consider themselves Palestinians and possibly the origins of the hatred between the two peoples. ------------------ The Worlds Ten Greatest 'Fucks' #10
Where's all that fucking water coming from? - Captain of Titanic
[This message has been edited by Orion Syndicate (edited May 22, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Orion Syndicate (edited May 22, 2001).]
posted
AHHHHHHHHH......read my post FULLY before making any COMMENTS!!!
READ MY POST FULLY BEFORE MAKING ANY COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!!
Jay:
" FREAKING TV SHOWED AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT YOU GET KILLED FOR THROWING ROCKS AT OFFICERS!!!! "
The point I was trying to make is that it can be AVOIDED by staying STRAIGHT HEADED, in other word, NOT TO PARTICIPATE. All the situation you guys had describe are SINGLE CONTINEOUS EVENT, dude, those guys at Kent State or Tiananmen Square intended for the protest to go as peaceful as they can, they didn't know it's gonna turn bloody all of a sudden on them.
Palestinians on the other hands, protests are carry out DISCOUNTIOUS and happened several time already. They went out there with no intention of talking it out peacefully, they went out there only to "duke it out" with the big guy. ISRAELIES DIDN"T SHOOT ON SIGHT, PALESTINIANS APPROACH PROTEST WITH VIOLENT ACTIONS, THEN ISRAELIES WERE FORCED TO SHOOT! Again, so much different then Kent State, or Tiananmen Square.
You guys get the purpose of that comment all wrong! Now, Palestinians watched their TV again, again, again. Now, what did they saw? They saw that previous protest ended in bloodshed cuz violent actions INITIATED by them forced Israelies to return fire. And yet they don't have the common sense to think or to learn, "Hey, maybe THROWING ROCKS or whatever violent things I'll be doing at the protest won't be such a good idea, better yet, how about NOT TO GO TO THESE PROTEST ALL TOGETHER until things started to settle down"
See? Common Sense? STUPIDITY? Definately something to think about.
and here, I quote myself:
" And who said they only threw rocks? Didn't we forget about that certain reporter that got shoot IN THE EXCHANGE OF SMALL ARM FIRE? How about them sniper shots reported again and again in these protest? And have we consider that Israelies officers were greatly out-numbered by blood-thrusty mob who would use anything at hand as weapons? How about Palestinians funeral parade carry out on TV that ended in cereomonial gunfires to remember the dead, and you tell me they got nothing but rocks to throw at? "
Get it? Rocks ain't the only thing that's been exchanged?
Jeff:
The "MAYBE" statement is backed by the "Rock ain't the only thing" statements. So dude, if rock ain't the only thing being "fire" at Israelies, then "MAYBE" it is a prudent action for Israelies to return fire to save their own butts?
And what's the big deal with F-16s, the hype is only political man! The bombing carry out by F-16s are precision striking at a SUPPOSED INTENDED MILITARY TARGET, not MASS CARPET BOMBING ON WHATEVER THEY CAN FIND! I suppose they used the Mk-82s? That thing ain't that much stronger then car bomb man! A tank can probably do more damage with three or four shells!
------------------ What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend? - With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.
[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 22, 2001).]
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
Talking is a two way process - Ariel Sharon clearly doesn't want to talk because he's already said that this is war. You can't blame the Palestinians fully for that - they throw stones, he sends in the tanks and planes. David and Goliath doesn't even begin to describe this situation.
Why does retreating have to be a one way act where the Palestinians give in? The Palestinians see that they're getting killed, so they should stop. Why don't the Israeli's see that every person they kill is creating a martyr to the cause, and intensifying the situation even further. Why don't they make a move - and I remind you again that it was Sharon who said that it was war, not the Palestinians.
You can't blame the Palestinians completely - they've had their land taken from them, they have no firm supporters - even the Arab nations are just talking rhetoric - there's no firm action. They have to do it themselves. You yanks yourselves are proud of the fight against "tyranny and oppression" which won you your own independence. The Palestinians are being oppressed here too by a tyrannical nation - why was it okay for you but not for them? They want a place to live yet their own land is now being turned into Jewish settlements by Sharon which is further adding fuel to the fire. The main culprit in this is Israel and Sharon - Arafat and Palestine are partly to blame, yes but not nearly on the scale that Israel is for the way in which they've handled and intensified this conflict.
------------------ The Worlds Ten Greatest 'Fucks' #10
Where's all that fucking water coming from? - Captain of Titanic
posted
You are all forgetting the magic force of group pressure. Both sides have strong feelings against eachother and staying home when all your friends/relatives are going out (to show that they weren't ok with the other side stoning two of their 14 year old children) then you might feel and be regarded as a sympathiser and sellout.
We can't relate to their situation because we A: don't live in their culture and B: are not at the brink of a hate war. I don't know about you guys but I've never been beaten to near death by soldiers nor had my house leveled to the ground.
------------------ "Babies haven't any hair; old men's heads are just as bare; between the cradle and the grave lies a haircut and a shave."
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Narns. The Israelis are acting like Narns. Or Drazi.
------------------ "'I don't CARE who started it, I'm tired, and I WANT QUIET!!!!! Or I'm going to come up there and flatten the BOTH of you!' And he meant it. And we'd stop. Or he would." --Foreign policy as laid down by First of Two's dad
posted
I've always been a bit irritated at my overprotective father, he always stood looking out through the bathroom window facing the street late at night in the weekends. He's also been very keen at having good security at home and did not like when me and my brother went to the city without notice, or didn't call if we were coming home late.
When I learned of the extent of his experiences as a UN soldier during the Kongo crisis in the 60's I became a tad more humble. We're talking entire villages slaughtering eachother with swords, clubs and spears.
One time at night, a villager climbed into their barracks and stabbed one of my fathers friends to death. Another night, a guy with a bad case of shell shock just stood up in the middle of the night and emptied a whole machine gun clip into the walls, right over my father's bed.
Granted, the hostilities in africa were worse than the Israel situation, but if it escalates to Yom Kippur II...
Don't the muslims foresee a New Order coming into power some time in the beginning of the 2000's? Something from the Quran?
------------------ "Babies haven't any hair; old men's heads are just as bare; between the cradle and the grave lies a haircut and a shave."
posted
Maybe we should just seal the place off, give both sides some really big guns and atomic weapons.. and quarantine it for a few decades....then we can reopen it, discover that both sides have killed each other off...and declare the place an International Park and Nature Preserve...
------------------ "The Guide says that there is an art to flying...or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." - Life, the Universe and Everything
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