quote:Originally posted by TSN: "House Speaker Dennis Hastert...said...'Of course, we are one nation, under God. The Pledge of Allegiance is a patriotic salute that brings people of all faiths together to share in the American spirit.'" [emphasis added]
I'm seriously considering writing a letter to my senators to complain about that resolution they passed. Of course, the ironic thing is that Senator Biden goes to the same church that I went to (and my family still attends).
I don't want to turn this thread into a diatribe over religion, but one of the things that's really turned me off to religion in general is that most believers get so damn self-righteous, that their way is the right way... and the ONLY way. There may be some lip-service to the coexistence of faiths, there's still a strong dominance of traditional support of religion in our government.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Why don't you just change it to: Hey America your so fine, your so fine you blow my mind, Hey America, Hey America
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Registered: Oct 2001
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The Real Folk Blues
Ex-Member
posted
well, in the case of a lot of christians, they have to be self righteous in order to convince themselves that they aren't wasting their time. if they acknowledged that other faiths might be valid then they would eventually have to acknowledge that having no faith is valid. soon, they would just sit around bemoaning the fact that they wasted all those sunday mornings praying to stratosphere instead of sleeping.
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quote:Why don't you just change it to: Hey America your so fine, your so fine you blow my mind, Hey America, Hey America
Because then Matt Groening would have quite the lawsuit to to place against the government which would then cause the writers of "Hey Mickey Your so Fine" to counter suit
posted
Could someone (if we've got anyone) who actually supports the pledge actually point out it's alleged purpose?
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Tom, the question isn't supporting the pledge or not supporting the pledge. The purpose of it is exactly what its name says it is -- it's a Pledge of Allegiance. It's not required to say, all students can choose to say it or not.
The question comes down to two words: "under God."
posted
I support the pledge. I know for most of the people here it represents some kind of government brain washing and such or somthing elementary school children are "forced to do" but to me it represents a patriotic gesture, somthing that reminds people that this is a nation not just the "place you live".
My viewpoint is that a pledge without the "under god" statement would be fine, infact the original pledge didnt have the "under god" bit. That part was added in the 1950's as the Cold War started heating up.
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Snay: I understand. I just don't see how people can get their panties in a knot over the pledge in the first place. As soon as kids are old enough to actually understand what all the words mean (but more importantly, what conceptually pledging allegiance is all about) they're beyond elementary school and as far as I know rarely if ever recite it again.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Tom, some people (mostly either on the right of the political spectrum or Christian fundementalists of various degrees) equate the words "under God" with being a patriotic American.
On another board I post on (a board for LEOs and those interested in the profession - BTW, Charles, they use UBB and it consistently logs people out randomly -- any ideas?), the debate on this has been very heated. You've got a lot of right wing voice on that board, and you've also got a lot of left wing voice (much more left-wing voice then I'd've thought).
Some people make rational debate about it, some don't. Quite a few make it about stuff it isn't -- it's an "attack" on the Pledge, or "the US is a Christian nation, if you don't like it go home you dirty rag-head!" One guy even claimed that all three judges were "anti-American communist homosexuals" (but when I asked why Nixon or Bush would appoint a 'anti-American communist homosexual' he never replied ...). To sum it up, some people just can't be patriotic without (apparently) God.
Most of the pro- "under God" (and, actually, many left-wingers were in support of the words, and quite a few right-wingers supported the decision) crowd had the "well, no one forces you to say the Pledge" attitude. When asked why athiests, agnostics, Muslims, Budhists, or non-Christians couldn't just say the Pledge minus the "under God" bit (and allow Christians to insert it if they so chose), the attitude was almost always a resounding: "tough!"
posted
From what I am told, the pledge is something that was created to honor the people who have died to defend the country. We say it because those who died cannot be here to say it for us, therefore we say it in their honor.
I have no problem in saying it, anyone who is in the military with a little respect for the flag will say it no matter what.
"Under God" is just someone thing added for some reason. My opinion if you don't believe in God or that specific god, don'y say that part.
-------------------- Matrix If you say so If you want so Then do so
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Why don't we take it out, so it can be legal, and the people who need to proclaim their faith every ten seconds can just add it in while we're taking a breath?
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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