quote:Originally posted by Harry: and Series VI will be called Star Trek: Holodeck Fantasies.
That'd be lame. Voyager was Barclay's Holodeck Fantasy.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
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Red Shirt Diaries.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Timelord
Ex-Member
posted
Matrix, I agree with your comment, largely ignored, that Berman and Braga do not know what is best for Star Trek. It has always seemed to me that they were trying to re-invent Trek, spinning off one version after the other, each one less successful than the last, with the only real goal being the perpetuation of the "francise" at all costs.
Personally, I would enjoy seeing Majel Roddenberry involved in the capacity of executive producer for any further Trek incarnations. She was there from the beginning and has always served as custodian of Gene's vision. She took an undeveloped pilot idea that Gene had back in the 70's and turned it into the highest-rated new series in syndication, Earth Final Conflict.
This is not to say that she alone is worthy to helm a new series, but if anyone can save Star Trek, I think she would be a good first choice.
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posted
Ever tried to watch Earth Final Conflict? Truly awful after the first season. Everyone expexted anything with Roddenberry's name stamped across the logo to be worth watching and that's why it had good ratings....at first. I know of NO ONE that was not throughly disapointed with that show.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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"...spinning off one version after the other, each one less successful than the last..."
I don't think two series, one of which is as-yet unproven, make a pattern.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Starbuck "Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
Member # 153
posted
Y'know, I was knocking some ideas around with friends recently, and there's one we all get behind as the future of Trek: miniseries.
The problem is that there's not enough diversity any more - for example, because it seems so much of the writing is done in-house, and focussing on the same characters every week for seven years. DS9 did some very different things, like stories with Martok's crew, or sending characters into totally new settings.
Now, how's this for an idea - that perhaps post-Enterprise, Trek takes a new direction. Four one-to-two hour episodes, on the same story arc, twice a year, with different central casts. Sulu and the Excelsior; Martok and the Rotarran; Robert April; Starfleet Intelligence; even a Romulan crew. Lots of characters, sets/props/costumes and other things to be reused, and also plenty of choice for doing something new - opportunities to explore a variety of places and events in the Trek universe, and to fill in the details we've only alluded to before. That and the fact I always loved stories with arcs. Reset buttons get boring
Because of the longer-than-normal script, lots of chance for character development. Because of the short run, no problems with creating something that won't hold the audience for long (when an all-Klingon series was suggested, producers responded that they didn't think viewers would like the show because they probably couldn't relate to a Klingon central cast every week for seven years). Although of course, there's nothing to stop, say, Captain April or Captain Sulu becoming a smash hit and doing a story every year.
What d'you reckon, folks? A viable future for Trek, with lots of fresh faces in every department, a new kind of writing, and a decent budget? I have high hopes something like this could restore the show to its fomer glory, not to mention doing one or two stories with rebuilt TOS sets, to appease those of us who want more of that kind of thing. And of course, they could always draw on Phase II for more inspiration...
Anyone care to throw his 2c. into the ring?
-------------------- "It was halfway to Rivendell when the drugs began to take effect." Hunter S. Tolkein, Fear and Loathing in Barad-Dur
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Starbuck "Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
Member # 153
posted
What about a partial use of the concept? That is to say, making three or four miniseries around one good concept (Sulu!)...
That probably won't work out as risky or as expensive - less costly than a series, I'd hope, but with better quality because they can spend six months in writing and possibly as long as a feature in production and post-production work.
Okay, I admit it. I'm just gunning for a Sulu miniseries (or a TOS-era one). But if it doesn't work for TV, it might at least make a neat fanfic concept!
-------------------- "It was halfway to Rivendell when the drugs began to take effect." Hunter S. Tolkein, Fear and Loathing in Barad-Dur
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posted
I really like your ideas, and it would be great if they did it, but I think the Big Giant Heads want to be sure the money and merchandise will keep flowing at a steady rate for about 7 years. Plus the fact that they would actually have to be creative...
posted
I've always been all for a series of Star Trek TV movies or miniseries. IMHO, saying it's too expensive and too risky, while correct, is another way for television execs to say "We can't trouble ourselves to come up with something that has high enough quality to be worth the expense and risk of doing something new."
You've already got a steady fan base of people who will tune in... why not take that and try to make it work? "24" is a very different concept... and look how awesome it is. Execs wanted it to go to a more serialized format this season, but the creators held their ground.
New and creative *can* be done.... it just takes willingness.
Registered: Oct 1999
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Starbuck "Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
Member # 153
posted
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: New and creative *can* be done.... it just takes willingness.
Case in point: 1964. Eugene W. Roddenberry is commissioned to make a pilot for his proposed new sci-fi show, "Star Trek". It is rejected by the network as "too cerebral". 1966. "Star Trek" first airs on US TV, following an unprecedented second pilot. Roddenberry lobbied to prevent too many changes to the show, including the loss of ethnic minority characters, and of the alien Mr Spock, following the network's admission that they had unfairly chosen the most difficult script for the first pilot rather than the best showcase of potential. 1969. "Star Trek" is cancelled in its third season. 1973. "Star Trek" returns to TV as a half-hour animated series. Almost all of the series regulars reprise their roles, as well as several of the writing and production staff. 1978. "Star Trek: Phase II" TV series announced. Cancelled a few days prior to filming. 1979. "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" theatrical release. 1987. "Star Trek: The Next Generation" airs on TV... it will spawn two spin-offs and four films.
Just a few highlights from the current 35-year timeline. Gene Roddenberry was a man with an idea, and he strived to bring his vision across. Star Trek survived biased execs, tightened budgets, numerous cancellations (attempted and actual), bad scheduling, Saturday mornings, false starts, studio execs playing silly beggars... and then went on to spawn a highly successful movie franchise, sequels, a prequel series, thousands of merchandisable items, conventions...
You're all aware of this, but it goes to show - if the right people got behind the idea of "Anthology Trek", it would work. Just needs the studio to butt out and let the program-makers do their work
-------------------- "It was halfway to Rivendell when the drugs began to take effect." Hunter S. Tolkein, Fear and Loathing in Barad-Dur
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Timelord
Ex-Member
posted
I would really like to see a "Star Trek - Excelsior" with Captain Sulu and crew. There are a considerable number of fans who are excited at the possibilities, which probably means it will never happen, but one can dream... Perhaps a telemovie could be produced to test the prospects of such a venture.
In my mind, Sulu is the logical heir to the Kirk legacy, anyway. Star Trek VI seemed to pass the baton to Sulu and Excelsior more than to TNG. Maybe Sulu can take over the new E from that wimp Harriman
Each spin-off of the series has tried to distinguish itself from previous ones by drastically changing the settings: space station/galactic war, lost starship, prequel. We are running out of really "different" ideas. Perhaps a return to something more familiar is in order. The classic movie time period was my personal favorite for many reasons (the stories, the uniforms, the music) and it was largely unexplored. There are some great stories left to tell there, and they wouldn't have to rely on old characters or re-used plots. You wouldn't really even need Sulu. Tell the story of the Enterprise-B, just populate it with fascinating, three-dimensional charaters and get rid of Harriman.
Star Trek was created with an underlying humanist philosophy in mind. Of course, you can't have a show were every episode makes some kind of philosophical statement, but Trek at its best explores what it means to be human. To their credit, the three previous series did just that to varying degrees. Ironically, they used non-human characters to do it. TNG's explorer of humanity was of course, Data. DS9's Odo didn't want to be human, but evolved from a gruff, standoffish autocrat into a being with the most noble of human qualities. Voyager's Doctor did much the same. I don't find a similar character in Enterprise.
quote:New and creative *can* be done.... it just takes willingness.
I absolutely agree. Look at Babylon 5. Some people get really PO'ed when anyone mentions this series in a Trek thread, but it is another prime example of how something new and creative can be successful. Before B5, nothing could compete with Trek, but JMS created a brand new universe and completed a very ambitious five-year story arc.
Star Trek can be saved, it just needs a bit of a rest and more insightful custodians.
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posted
Oh christ, Star Trek: Excelsior. I like George Takei, he's a nice guy, but let's face it, the series ain't going to happen. Why not? For the same reason everyone disses "Enterprise" --
a) The most tired arguement: "It's Star Trek -- we should look forward, not back!"
b) The most common arguement: Recycled storylines, and the same familiar aliens of the week.
c) Berman & Braga. Nevermind the common fanboy's ability to ignore their impacts on TNG and DS9, the two will continued to be blamed for absolutely everything wrong with the show, as well as Bush being president, and I'm sure they'll be somehow tied into the cause of the 9/11 attacks, too.
PS -- I find this statement:
quote:There are a considerable number of fans who are excited at the possibilities,
Highly questionable in its accuracy.
quote:Look at Babylon 5. Some people get really PO'ed when anyone mentions this series in a Trek thread, but it is another prime example of how something new and creative can be successful.
No, people get PO'ed because Babylon 5 is utter and complete crap. The dialogue is stunted, the story ideas are unimagined (the writing in general is what you might expect of a fanboy written fan-fic, and possibly explains why so many enjoy the show despite its total lack of creativity), and the characters are about as exciting as watching a tree rot. Some of the sets are nice, and the special effects suck, but we won't hold that against them, except to the degree that the original "Star Trek" had great stories (for the most part), and crappy special effects, but the writing cancels out the special effects, and in the case of B5, they all blow.
posted
Personally, I just think they need to give Star Trek a well-deserved break. The world is oversaturated with Star Trek... and the last few years it's all been with crapy shows (Voyager and Enterprise).
And yes, B5 blows. I gave it an honest chance; I watched 5 episodes back to back, and I would rather watch all the Q episodes of Voyager before EVER watching B5 again.
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