posted
You don't send Oberths into uncharted, possibly dangerous territory. The Defiant is perfect - it is quick, nimble, powerful enough to defend itself, and can cloak and run if the "going gets tough", as it were.
And (the Remans aside) I think the Federation is at peace with pretty much everyone around them, so putting warships on border patrol duties isn't really necessary.
Also, given Starfleet's purpose, I would hardly call exploring the galaxy and making first contact with alien races "menial".
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Oberths have been doing that all along, the Gamma quadrant cant be any more threatening now than the Alpha Quadrant was when they were in their heyday. Besides, you still got combined scores of Galaxy, Excelsior and Mirandas still in service that would fit the exploration role LONG before the Defiant....its a warship...it has no comfortable crew quarters...its not equipped for long missions or deepspace exploration....the Federation got by for 225 years without Defiants and cloaks and fared well against the Romulans, Klingons, etc. so why change that?...but again all I hear in your Defiant debate is fanboy dreams of pulse cannons and caviar....not of what was, is and are the facts.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
What the hell?? His role was purely shock value. Do you think he was there looing for the closest ice cream stand when he went through that wormhole....??
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Oberths have been doing that all along, the Gamma quadrant cant be any more threatening now than the Alpha Quadrant was when they were in their heyday. Besides, you still got combined scores of Galaxy, Excelsior and Mirandas still in service that would fit the exploration role LONG before the Defiant....its a warship...it has no comfortable crew quarters...its not equipped for long missions or deepspace exploration....the Federation got by for 225 years without Defiants and cloaks and fared well against the Romulans, Klingons, etc. so why change that?...but again all I hear in your Defiant debate is fanboy dreams of pulse cannons and caviar....not of what was, is and are the facts.
Oberths are, and always have been, science ships and freighters, not explorers. Remember the Grissom?
And insulting me is just ridiculous and childish - you don't use pulse cannons very often when making first contact, and what caviar has to do with this is beyond me.
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
If you havent noticed, the portion of the Gamma Quadrant near the wormhole was controlled largely by the Dominion. The Dominion is no more...at least as a threat. That is a vast expanse of space in which Oberths could have pretty free and safe roam of the region. Besides, there was probably plenty of systems within earshot of the wormhole that had not been thoroughly charted, again, easily using the resources of an Oberth. They are science vessels and are specially equipped for scanning and charting, which is what they did best...otherwise they would have sent something bigger to Genesis...but no, the Obie was the best one for the job.
Plus, I am sure that SF got a MAJOR bonus out of winning the war with starcharts and lists of new species to encounter up the yazoo from the former Dominion, so no threats really exist in the range an Oberth would travel, because the Dominion probably was pretty thorough on eliminating any other threats long ago.
And the caviar was referring to your dreams...a la...'life styles of the rich and famous' which you are evidently are not familar with.
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Ok, Phoenix boy, you tell ME how a Defiant-class, a ship without the scientific resources of even a MIRANDA class starship, can be expected to fulfill the role of a science vessel? I'm waiting.
posted
I didn't say it is a science ship. It is exploring - travelling to new worlds, saying hello, then moving on. The diplomats and scientists, I presume, will come later.
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I'm of the opinion that the Defiant, cloak and all, wouldn't have fared any better had it been int he same position as the Odyssey. This is proven in "The Search", where three attack ships handily trounced the Defiant while losing only one ship. Had they not been there to capture the crew, they could have easily destroyed her - it was clear that the Defiant was dead in space even before the Jem'Hadar beamed aboard.
After a battle in which the Odyssey was bashed about for an arguably longer amount of time (discounting the runabouts, which were pretty useless anyway), she was still intact and reparable to the point of being able to get away. She may not have been able to fight back, but as we saw later on in the series that wasn't so much of an issue anymore. If I'm going to go tooling around unexplored space, I'm not going to go in a Defiant.
The Galaxy is still handily capable of exploring space. A Defiant may have more advanced (but not necessarily superior) firepower, and the Sovereign may have hefty amounts of both, but on the whole when you need to explore space you need scientists, diplomats, explorers and the like - something a Galaxy can support far more than either of the other classes can. Exploration isn't done at the point of a spear!
But this is something to be discussed over in the tech forum, no?
Where on Earth does this come from? The Dominion is likely just as powerful as it ever was. I doubt anyone in the Gamma Quadrant who isn't a Founder even knows that there was a war being fought, much less that it was lost. The Dominion end of the wormhole is likely an armed camp by now.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
But the Dominion surrendered, not just the Alpha Quadrant half of it. If you'll remember, the disease had affected the Founders in the Gamma Quadrant as well -- the surrender terms negotiated by Odo were that in exchange for the cure, the Dominion would end the war and presumeably pursue peaceful relations with the Federation. The Dominion no doubt DOES have a powerful military force in the Gamma Quadrant, but they are no threat to Federation and allied ships.
Oh, and Simon? He said "The Dominion is no more ... as a threat, at least." And he's RIGHT. The Dominion is not a threat. I don't understand why you didn't quote the entire sentence, OTOH, it's almost like you didn't read it at all.
posted
Anxiety much, Jeff? I was quoting from an earlier post, if it is so important to you. And the idea that the Dominion simply rolls over and lets the Federation run wild through the Gamma Quadrant does not strike me as being at all plausible, interesting, or, most importantly, stated or implied by "What You Leave Behind."
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I know you were Simon, I pointed that out to you, didn't I?
Let me point something else out. If the Dominion wasn't allowing Federation ships to explore the Gamma Quadrant, then what is the point of this whole "I'd send a (Defiant/Oberth/Galaxy) ship to explore" is moot, isn't it? After all, if the Dominion says, "uh, no explorations, please", then most likely, Starfleet will now listen to them. The whole crux of this arguement is an assumption that the Dominion IS allowing them to explore, therefore, any threats which would be encountered are unlikely to be of Dominion origin. Dig'it, yo?
quote:and presumeably pursue peaceful relations with the Federation.
You are presuming, but I don't recall anything over Ending the war with the federation, and going home. I'm with Sol on this one. Odo's infulence may change the founders, but it wont happen over night. I suspect they are ju8st waiting for the Federation to come through the worm hole and play.
As for the Defiant, I seem to remember that it was built to fight, and didn't have sensor's that would enable it to act as a research vessle. I figure it got upgrades along the way, and might be sent to the GQ as a scout, to make sure it was safe enough to send a less well armed, but better equiped ship for scientific investigation.
Registered: Jun 1999
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