posted
It should be noted that in the books, the Defiant was refit for exploration duty. IIRC, some of the extra weapons storage was removed for labs and the like.
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posted
I thought Odo was pretty much heading up the Dominion's Reconstruction...as he was pretty much the savior of the Founders and so forth...I think SF has a good opportunity to get some good out of this...he is, afterall, their allie.
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posted
Maybe. But one Odo against potentially several billion changlings? I'm not sure his will is quite that powerful.
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posted
I think the fact that he had the cure and the Federation put the Founders in ther perverbial place by infecting them and Odo being their only cure, and hell, for all the speculation here...we REALLY don't know the finer points of the surrender...but whichever the case, Odo wouldnt have stayed if he didnt think that he would be effective being there versus being with his one true love...
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posted
The thing is, as I see it, Odo isn't exactly the most pro-Federation type around. Unlike every other Founder we saw, he was willing, even eager, to accept that "solids" were decent individuals worthy of respect, at least. But Odo's final official contact with the Federation was when they tried to kill him and his entire species. So, is Odo going to suggest the Dominion pursue another genocidal war in the Alpha Quadrant? I doubt it. But he has very little reason to suggest that the Dominion trust the UFP.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
But the Federation did what it had to do....in fact, it might have been more Section 31 than it was the Federation so the Feds really cant be at completely at fault here for Odo to harbor his mistrusts...
Besides, this brings up the same scenario Truman faced with the Japanese in WWII and using the Nuc. They NEEDED to end the war, and the NEEDED to do it now, because the casualities were becoming astronomical. Truman dropped the bomb, and brought an immediate solution to an immediate problem...it was that or face even a significantly larger number of casualities in an attempted invasion of the islands.
Much the same, the Federation NEEDED to end the war, and Section 31 took it upon themselves to do it. The difference here, in this analogy is that what Section 31 did was not as immediate; it may have been genocide, but it HAD a cure and it was long term (vs. immediate). Ethics aside, each did what they had to do to have the upper hand or to win...be it cause a fatal virus, mine or attempt to collapse the wormhole, or destroy hundreds of ships, planets and colonies....thankfully the use of biogenics wasnt fulfilled. Keep in mind too, the Dominion was willing to destroy the Bajoran sun...that would have been genocide of the Bajoran ppl and probably half the KDF and the like...
Odo may have been a pawn, but I think he understood the circumstances, or he wouldnt have participated in the final party...or been part of ANYTHING once he was cured...
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posted
You know, the funny thing is that S31 actually succeeded. Without that virus, we might have still won the war in the Alpha quadrant, but we would have lost a lot more ships doing it, a lot more people would have died, and the Gamma quadrant arm of the Dominion would have still existed in full force, with no reason to stop fighting. (Minus the 3,000 ships the Prophets blinked, of course.)
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Besides, this brings up the same scenario Truman faced with the Japanese in WWII and using the Nuc. They NEEDED to end the war, and the NEEDED to do it now, because the casualities were becoming astronomical. Truman dropped the bomb, and brought an immediate solution to an immediate problem...it was that or face even a significantly larger number of casualities in an attempted invasion of the islands.
I don't think that's really the best example you can use, considering that not everyone thinks as you do.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
They do NOW. The projections during the war itself were much less, then the now inflated number of one million. I'm not saying the current estimations aren't incorrect, just that Truman didn't have them to go by, and we should judge him based on the information he had at the time.
The big difference between what Truman did and what Section 31 did, is that, at worst, what Truman did was mass-murder -- given the inaccuracies of regular bombs of the time, thousands of civillians were being slaughtered by both sides as a routine matter of course. What Section 31 did, however, was unsanctioned by their government, and is however you factor it, attempted genocide. Everything turned out okay for the Federation, but I can't imagine it's good to have a rogue agency running around doing this crap.
quote: Besides, this brings up the same scenario Truman faced with the Japanese in WWII and using the Nuc. They NEEDED to end the war, and the NEEDED to do it now, because the casualities were becoming astronomical. Truman dropped the bomb, and brought an immediate solution to an immediate problem...
Bombs , plural. Even if we accept the slightly facetious argument that the bombs prevented more casualites than they caused, it hardly justifies both. Besides, the Japanese were already a defeated people, we were already bombing their cities with impunity...hardly an immediate problem.
It seems almost irrelevant (need a better word) to make the comparison, but the Federation really did face the threat of annihilation. They lost entire fleets, Betazed, and Earth itself was bombed (Apparantly a novelty even for Martok.....though Enterprise will soon show us otherwise). Though they probably didn't know about it, Weyoun did seem to favour the complete destruction of Earth for starters.
Ultimately, this all doesn't seem to matter all that much. While the virus was an important story thread for Odo, the positive impact of the virus on the war seems....superfluous, and overshadowed by the Romulan entry into the war and the Cardassian rebellion.
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posted
The point is: extreme measures were taken on both cases to end a war. The Japanese were supposedly, at least what Truman was lead to believe, were going to fight to the death throwing everything they had at an invasion, voluntary suicide civilians and all. Im not here to defend actions taken or logistics of WWII, I am just trying to state that in both scenarios extreme measures were taken to either inflict damage or to outright end a war. 1) The Dominion DID make the first attempt at mass murder by destroying the Bajoran sun and a massive space fleet of allied force. 2) Section 31 took the liberty to kill, to cause genocide to, the Founders. Those are the extremes I am trying to point out....
Consider, too, that despite the fact that the Founders were targeted, the belief was at the time, that if they cut the head off the snake, and the Founders died, then Jem'Hadar wouldn't have been far behind, either....so really, Section 31 was targeting more than just the enemy "government", which actually was planned well before the war started, which eventually would have caused the annilihation of the rest of the Dominion as well.
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Cartman
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posted
quote:The point is: extreme measures were taken on both cases to end a war.
But let's keep depressing historical facts and lighthearted science fiction seperate, shall we?
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As for exploring the Gamma Quadrent: 1) I would imagine several ships would be used, at least once the fleet is built back up. 2) I would certainly imagine that at least one large vessel ie Galaxy or Nebula would be assigned. 3) Smaller vessels- Nova class perhaps? We know they (or at least a refitted version) pack quite a punch and they are pretty durable. 4) The Defiant could be used for initial surveys I suppose- it must have some sensors that could be used to gather preliminary data about planets/ atmospheres but i doubt it'd be any use for 'proper' exploration, even after a refit.
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