1. The current thinking amongst a lot of geneticists who believe sexual preference has a genetic basis is that it is influenced by a lot of different genes (and possibly by some neo-natal and perhaps things as well), and not just a switch. So it might be everything from what colors and smells you're sensitive and a host of other things that influence what turns you on. This would tend to explain bisexuality as well, as it's not something as sinple as an on/off switch.
2. As to the choice argument, a lot of animals exhibit same sex coupling, and it's hightly doubtful they make choices. Some years ago I read statistics once on certain gull species that has a high rate of "lesbianism" with females nesting together as couples.
3. "Cure" makes it sound like an illness or a defect. In a world with over 6 billion people, maybe it's a benefit. Who really wants everyone out there to be breeders?
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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"...if it is genetic, than one would expect a mutation that so drastically reduces fitness to be bred out of the gene pool via natural selection relatively quickly."
Well, as a mutation, it doesn't need to be passed on to appear on its own. How do you think it came about in the first place?
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Mutations don't get "bred out." They occur over and over and over again. That's why two totally unrelated people can have the same mutation.
Last I heard, the current thinking was a combination of genetic and natal factors.
I'm told there was a study that found notable differences between the structural makeup of homosexual brains (IIRC, mostly in the the hypothalamus) and that of heterosexual brains.
The belief was that this was due to a differing chemical balance in the fetus during natal development, and was theorized to be caused by extra stress on the mother during a certain period of the pregnancy.
So that the old saw is right... mother did cause it.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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quote:Originally posted by First of Two: Mutations don't get "bred out." They occur over and over and over again. That's why two totally unrelated people can have the same mutation.
Exactly, which is how evolution works...mutations occur and occasionally provide some advantage and the mutation becomes the norm. Albeit most mutations are not benficial.
quote:I'm told there was a study that found notable differences between the structural makeup of homosexual brains (IIRC, mostly in the the hypothalamus) and that of heterosexual brains.
There was, but the validity of the study's since been challenged, partly because the sample group was so small and the method of subject selection could have been biased, amongst other things.
quote:So that the old saw is right... mother did cause it.
How Freudian! Haha
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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quote: 1. The current thinking amongst a lot of geneticists who believe sexual preference has a genetic basis is that it is influenced by a lot of different genes (and possibly by some neo-natal and perhaps things as well)...as it's not something as sinple as an on/off switch.
Right, as in there is no simple off switch for say blindness or deafness. A problem in any number of related genes can cause a change in function. Being influenced by a large number of genes (and as you said various environmental factors), there can be many degrees of blindness or deafness.
quote: 3. "Cure" makes it sound like an illness or a defect. In a world with over 6 billion people, maybe it's a benefit. Who really wants everyone out there to be breeders?
Sure, maybe Sickle-cell anemia confers certain advantages when dealing with malaria, and thus is more prevelant in African populations than say...well Canadian ones. But in the end, its society (or our individual beliefs) that determines whether sickle-cell anemia or deafness or blindness should be cured. I'm just saying that from a technological point of view (morality notwithstanding), there's not much of a difference.
quote:Mutations don't get "bred out." They occur over and over and over again. That's why two totally unrelated people can have the same mutation.
quote: Exactly, which is how evolution works...mutations occur and occasionally provide some advantage and the mutation becomes the norm. Albeit most mutations are not benficial.
Right, obviously. But it seems to me on a cursory glance that homosexuality would not be beneficial, and that natural selection would keep it at a background level. However, it seems that the gay population is much larger than could be explained through spontaeous mutation. (and someone can provide statistics either way *hint, hint*) Thus there probably is an environmental factor (possibly the neo-natal factors you mentioned)
Registered: Mar 1999
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I don't know when and if we shall ever prove to everyone's satisfaction whether homosexuality is caused by genes, by environment, or by a combination. I really don't care. All I know is that homosexuality (rather than homosexual behavior alone) is not something that can be chosen. It exists now, has been recorded by most cultures through history (with various degrees of acceptance), and will likely continue to exist (despite occassional efforts to eradicate it). Learn to accept it. Trek should learn to accept it too.
Registered: Oct 1999
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There is absolutely nothing that says it hasn't.
IN FACT: Maybe Heterosexuality is such that, in 2374, IT is the minority, and the reason we see episodes dealing with it is because, in 2374, nerds ask "Where's the Straight people?" on the HyperNet.
Registered: Oct 1999
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Perhaps homosexuality was ruthlessly targetted during the Eugenics Wars, and is only beginning to re-manifest in the human genome again some four centuries later?
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
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Registered: Feb 2001
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So I am pondering.. does Starfleet have a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy??
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quote:Originally posted by Proteus: Wow, this conversation just dragged on didnt it?
I dunno...at least it stayed more on less on-topic. That's a rarity!
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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quote:Originally posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: But hell, Will and Grace and Queer as Folk came along to represent me somewhat in TV land, but I still waited for my representation in the Trek universe.
But they are as relevent today as, say, the Cosby show would have been in 1966. Which might have been a lot. I don't know. When did shows that I'm trying to avoid describing as "A bunch of black people living or hanging together with jokes in" start being made?
Will and Grace is about gayness. Or at least, it uses gayness as a source for jokes, like Frasier uses pompous psychiatrists as a source for jokes. Queer as Folk is a drama about gays. Star Trek wasn't a drama show about black people. It was a show that had black people in it.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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It's called a situation comedy cracker ass cracker. Just because it has blacks or gays doesn't make it different it just happens to have blacks or gays in it. And if u black u need Jesus.
Registered: Jul 2001
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I dunno. I think he needs +1000 points for this:
"It's called a situation comedy cracker ass cracker"
And my point was that the show was still about an all black family, or a bunch of gay friends. On Trek, Geordi could have been white with pretty much no change at all.
And yeah, you could see the same thing for the sit-coms, but would Will be quite the same if he was "The cool white dude from Bel-Air"?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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Sickle-cell anemia confers certain advantages when dealing with malaria, and thus is more prevelant in African populations than say...well Canadian ones. 
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