quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: that is a desk behind the model.. those are desk drawers.. this model is a lot bigger than four feet methinks..
As to the desk with drawers, a) how far away is it, and b) what kind of lens was the picture shot with?
One big problem with trying to determine the sizes of these minatures is that people who worked on the films "guesstimate" the sizes. I've heard the TMP model referred to as being anywhere from six to 10 feet long (it's closer to seven). Based on the other pix I've seen of the Phase II model, I'd estimate it's length at four to five feet. The pictures of Loos working on what is very plainly the secondary hull convinces me this is right. And given TV budgets it would make no sense for a 4 foot model and a somewhat larger (say six foot) model to be built.
Also, if the model was a lot bigger than four feet I doubt the seven foot TMP model would have been built, as it's been stated a lot of places that the Phase II model was too small for motion picture purposes (heck, Doug Trumbull thought the TMP model was too small).
When I get home from work I'll scan the pictures of the Phase II model and the drydock built for it. I'll also ask Andy Probert about it, as several of the photos of the Phase II model are credited as coming from his collection.
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well, that may very well be a secondary hull.. but is it the secondary hull?.. we don't really have any way of concluding that they are the same models.
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quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: well, that may very well be a secondary hull.. but is it the secondary hull?.. we don't really have any way of concluding that they are the same models.
What else would it be? Don Loos building some other Enterprise for the helluvit?
I just re-read an interview with Richard Taylor of TMP where he says the Phase II model was "maybe four feet long".
I'm just going to scan those other pix from the Phase II book to establish just how small that model really was.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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Hmm, this topic came up (courtesy of moi) on Starshipbuilder back in '01...
quote:Originally posted by Timo: What items rest on the foreground "table", at the right end? An ashtray or pen holder? Two cigarettes, pens, matches?
Not an ashtray - the gray item is the surround for the main sensor. The yellow item (not shown in that post but is there in the pic from The Art of Star Trek) is the hanger door assembly. Two cigarettes looks to be a single item - possibly an Allen key?
Regarding the 4 foot debate - over on SB Charles Adams said "I know someone who says he got hold of molds for a 4-foot Enterprise from that era, but he's not sure exactly what it was. I think it might have been this model but there's no way to tell for sure. "
Charles posted some pics (including this one), supposedly of the P2 model rebuilt to TMP specs
There are enough differences between that model and the P2 pic in this topic to make me question whether it is the same model. P2 dorsal is rounded at the front, 'TMP' isn't. P2 "cutouts" at the end of the warp pylons. Secondary hull windows are in different positions. Granted, those changes could've been done when TMP-ifying the model. Or it could be another model made from the same mold - apparently there were Enterprises at several Planet Hollyweirds
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Revisiting the size of the Phase II ship, I asked Andy Probert...
ME: I've read Richard Taylor and others say it was about 4 feet long. Do you know if this is correct?
ANDY: That sounds about right.
Following up on that, I scanned the images from the Phase II book that show the drydock and Enterprise models. The most relevant image is this one...
Phase II Drydock with Enteprise model within
Now, while the perspective on this picture may seem to make making accurate scaling difficult, some basic one point perspective rules can be used to figure things out. I started doing this, and I've got the relative height of the Enterprise to the dock "box" figured out (about half), but the tricky part is trying to figure the distance of the man at left and the table in the background. There are a few clues to this is the pic, but they're difficult to work with (the shadow of a dock thruster pod on the table, for instance, which in sunlight could be used to easily calculate a rough distance doesn't work with indoor lighting because the distance of the light from the object and the shadow plays tricks with the shadow's relative size).
The second pic shows the dock in an earlier stage of construction, minus the Enterprise. Again, there's a human figure in the background, but it's tough to get an accurate read on his position relative to the model.
This final pic was useful for gauging the scale of the hexagonal lighting units to the drydock, which was then used to figure out how big those were relative to the Enterprise model. These provided a handy benchmark because two of those same units were moved to the TMP drydock, and they appear to be roughly 36% smaller next to that ship. Taking 36% of 84" (seven feet) results in 54" or (very roughly) 4'6" for the Phase II model.
I'm pursuing one other line of inquiry regarding this model, and I'll let you know what I dig up.
P.S. I just noticed an interesting "whoops" on the Phase II ship, visible in all the pix I've seen of it. There's an "intercooler" of the outboard side of one nacelle, and on the INBOARD side of the other. It's like they used portside nacelles for both. Yikes!
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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Note that you can see Lee Cole's transporter logo on the doors in both pix.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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Note that you can see Lee Cole's transporter logo on the doors in both pix.
Check out the jumpers worn by the crew in those pics-- almost like a precursor to the TNG first-season uniforms. I wonder if any new uniform sketches were made before the decision was made to go with the TOS uniform design, which according to the Phase II books they had a backlog of.
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These match up pretty well with the Don Loos model seen under construction. I also suspect these may have been close to the basis for all the lit up artwork of the ship seen in the bridge set.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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And regarding the "Particle Fountain": I would rather think they reused one of these "attachment pods" to the spacedock in one of the early TNG epsiodes as part of a station on a planet. Can't remember the episode at the moment but will look it up. Looked rather like a desert planet - Mars-like. Could have been the Ep "Home Soil".
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quote:Originally posted by Timo: I don't really see why. The "table" on which the model rests could be much higher from the floor than the desk on the background, and the model not that much different in size from the one on the far background.
Well, it occurs to me that you can always use the shadows for reference... draw lines which follow from the shadow on the table to the shadow on the curtain, and you'll get the height of the table. (Yes, I know this is an old topic, but I came across it when I was searching on data about Phase II the other day, after a really long time...)
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