Another thing to consider is that stars of different classes are likely going to have solar systems (if any) of varying sizes. For instance, a superhuge star like Betelgeuse, whose diameter is over 2 AUs, is going to have a gravitational effect on orbiting bodies much farther away than a middle-class star like our sun.
As such, it's possible that the radius of the "territorial bubble" for any star is related to its size. Thus a puny red dwarf like Wolf 359 is gonna have a much smaller territory than a supergiant.
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Which brings us to the subject of uninhabited systems. I suppose Wolf 359 is uninhabited, and that it is in 'Federation space'. So what keeps minor annoyances like the Orions from claiming a system like that?
posted
I would say that the limit has to be arbitrary - a set distance which bears in mind economic and defensive distances.
If memory serves, the present one for sea-bordered nations is 40 miles. Does anyone know how this was decided upon? Was it based on the time a sailing ship took to cross those 40 miles?
We could then assume that a sililar distance/travel time system was worked out during pre-Federation times (NX-01 can travel wf5).
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Another question would be, is an Oort Cloud object really all that valuable? After all, those things are supposed to be nothing more than dirty snowballs, from what I know...
When you consider that, I don't think that a light-year's distance would really be all that necessary.
And something else just occurred to me that would make borders in binary star systems REALLY fun... elliptical orbits!
Let's take Alpha Centauri, our nearest neighbors and probably a reasonable model of a trinary star system in which the two largest stars have an orbital period of about 80 years, and come as close as about 11 AU, but swing as far apart as 35 AU -- which, in the scale of a star system, is not all that close and actually still allows the possibility of Earth-like planets around either of those stars. (Some binary pairs orbit at half an AU or less...)
So, how do you partition these two star subsystems? Would you take each star's heliopause, where it starts running into the solar wind of its companion? Would you take a simple halfway point between the two stars?
Then, of course, there's Proxima. Actually, that's a bit simpler, because Proxima simply orbits the pair's joint center of gravity at about a third of a light-year away. That's plenty distant for a planetary scale, though not enough if you're talking the 1- or 2-light-year interstellar borders, and this unfortunate pair is politically divided. Then you're back to square one.
I won't even THINK about going into quaternary systems like Capella...
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quote:Originally posted by Treknophyle: If memory serves, the present one for sea-bordered nations is 40 miles. Does anyone know how this was decided upon? Was it based on the time a sailing ship took to cross those 40 miles?
Territorial Waters extend to 12 Nautical Miles (22 km) offshore and include all of the airspace above and seabed below.
The idea first originated in the 17'th century as the major seapowers really came into there own. I believe it was just an arbitrary number rather then any measure of speed of a ship in any given time but I'm not sure about that.
Not all nations subscribe to the "Law of the Sea" and some claim much greater territorial waters. A notable example being Libya in the 1986 Gulf of Sidra Incident when Qadaffi claimed the entire Gulf as Libyan territory and drew a "Line of Death" at it's northernmost point. Qadaffi still claims the territory even though naval ships frequently defy his claim.
In response to the earlier question about the size of the continental shelf, it averages 40 miles wide but can vary from zero to up to 930 miles wide.
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Another question would be, is an Oort Cloud object really all that valuable? After all, those things are supposed to be nothing more than dirty snowballs, from what I know... __________________________________________________
Guess it all depends on the tech level of the race in question. The Oort Cloud would make a good refueling point for early vessels stocking up on hydrogen and oxygen for fuel for a deep space mission. __________________________________________________
When you consider that, I don't think that a light-year's distance would really be all that necessary. __________________________________________________
There's also the consideration of whether or not you'd like an enemy species to set up a totally legal reconnaissance array on one of those dirty snowballs to spy on your system. Or to just park a ship there to do the same task. It would be the new version of the Cold War Russian Trawlers. To quote - Earth, Hitler, 1938 via General Chang - "We need breathing room". So I think you've got to have at least a one light year perimeter. __________________________________________________
And something else just occurred to me that would make borders in binary star systems REALLY fun... elliptical orbits!
Let's take Alpha Centauri, our nearest neighbors and probably a reasonable model of a trinary star system in which the two largest stars have an orbital period of about 80 years, and come as close as about 11 AU, but swing as far apart as 35 AU -- which, in the scale of a star system, is not all that close and actually still allows the possibility of Earth-like planets around either of those stars. (Some binary pairs orbit at half an AU or less...)
So, how do you partition these two star subsystems? Would you take each star's heliopause, where it starts running into the solar wind of its companion? Would you take a simple halfway point between the two stars?
Then, of course, there's Proxima. Actually, that's a bit simpler, because Proxima simply orbits the pair's joint center of gravity at about a third of a light-year away. That's plenty distant for a planetary scale, though not enough if you're talking the 1- or 2-light-year interstellar borders, and this unfortunate pair is politically divided. Then you're back to square one.
I won't even THINK about going into quaternary systems like Capella... __________________________________________________
Hmmm, okey dokey. Take the same one light year radius from the stellar core figure I mentioned earlier, then extend it along the entire furthest extent of the stars elliptical orbit (and all the space in between). Do the same for the other stars in the system as well. So the territorial waters would look like a series of flattened easter eggs marking the extent of each stars orbit and any space in between.
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Two minor nits I'd just like to throw into the ring...
The common centre of gravity between to co-orbiting bodies is called the barycentre.
And although trinary is now accepted as an alternative, the proper term is ternary. Trinary is as much a made-u[ non-word as "utilise" was back in the day...
--Jonah
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"The original three-mile limit was the recognized distance from a nation�s shore over which that nation had jurisdiction. This border of international waters or the �high seas� was established because, at the time this international law was established, three miles was the longest range of any nation�s most powerful guns, and therefore, the limit from shore batteries at which they could enforce their laws. (International law and the 1988 Territorial Sea Proclamation established the �high seas� border at the 12-mile limit.)"
"The background to these requests is as follows. Historically, the United States adhered to the rule that the territorial sea extends three nautical miles out.(2) In 1988, however, President Reagan, by proclamation, extended the United States�s territorial sea to a distance of twelve nautical miles. See Proclamation No. 5928 (Dec. 27, 1988): ...authority of the INS to board and search sea vessels suspected of transporting undocumented aliens if such vessels are found within that twelve mile zone."
Other nations followed suit.
I would posit therefore that the original arbitrary SPHERICAL shell of territory would be somewhat similar, and would be based upon either the range or practical range (based upon guidance systems) of missile/torpedo systems). ie: You own what you can defend. It could be quadrupled later - when economic/defensive requirements necessitated.
What is the practical range of a Mark 2 pho-torp?
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I have a book here on contemporary "Outer Space Law". Want to to see if there's any comment about how far a nation can currently claim orbital space?
--Jonah
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From what I remember of modern space law, there is some abomination called the moon treaty from 1963 or so that seriously impacts any manifest destiny kinds of claims ... same era when by banning nukes in space, they killed NERVA and PROJECT ORION and all the 'get across the solar system in four weeks' nuclear pulse driven systems.
I have a feeling your book would make me very sad and angry (and therefore it is probably filled with all sorts of stuff to inspire some good 'if this goes on' stories.)
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National boundaries extend to the limit of the atmosphere, according to the Outer Space Treaty. IIRC, that's the same 60-mile limit that those X-Prize engineers are trying to break with their private spacecraft contest.
And I seriously doubt that weapons range would have anything to do with territory. After all, the United States has cruise missiles that can go hundreds of miles. Hell, if you consider ICBM's to have "defensive" capabilities, the US should own the entire world. (Not that I endorse that idea, of course.)
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Yes, there's not really a physical edge of the atmosphere. But there's a long tradition in spaceflight that has set the sixty or hundred miles above sea level as the top of flyable atmosphere. I have no idea exactly how it was determined, but it's been mentioned plenty of times.
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