posted
I always knew Shatner's true calling: Chum.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Chum? Shark bait. Mostly chopped up meat and fish let sit in the sun for a couple of days to get really smelly and ripe.... Well, you get the idea.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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The BEST part of this movie - it's FANTASTIC score. The best of them all. A lot of the themes from First Contact are taken from The Final Frontier.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
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Go back further. TFF uses the main theme and Klingon theme Goldsmith (who did the score for FC, too) originally created for TMP. In my opinion, the best score -- and best use of the score -- was TSFS. Awesome...
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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SFS is just a variation in orchestration(minus the good cues) on TWOK, and doesn't use any of Goldsmith's stuff from TMP (though Horner tries to get the flavor of JG's klingon stuff.)
-------------------- Achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it.
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IMO, TSFS is better than TWoK. TWoK tends to sound a little bit too "canned" for me -- hard to explain. TSFS seems a bit more grand and sweeping, and fits what we're seeing a lot better...
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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Goldsmith's work on TFF is actually pretty good, because even though he recycles a few themes from TMP, they're reorchestrated and sound pretty different. The Klingon theme is more "sneaky" in TMP and here it's downright "thrill of battle", for instance.
I've never been a fan on Horner's work. I especially dislike his early scores, which all sounded interchangeable. Not only are those scores derivative and some near clones of one another, but he had an annoying habit or using the same orchestration for similar themes in film and film, which made them seem even more generic. Listen to the boat chase music from the end of Cocoon...it's a near clone of some of his TWOK work. Bleh.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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"Early" scores? I had the displeasure of seeing "Bicentennical Man" recently, and found that I could still enjoy the movie by closing my eyes, listening to the music and thinking that I was watching "Wrath of Khan".
When Horner is great, he is great. In ST2 especially so. Provided you don't mind the similarities to "Jumanji" and stuff. And he's *not* a one-trick horse, as the "Mark of Zorro" score was great in a very different way. It's just that he has enough greatness in him for about one movie per decade...
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I have to agree with AndrewR. I think the score is the best part of TFF. And it's the best score of all the Trek films IMHO. Take the opening credits during the Yosemite scenes. I can't detect any reused elements from TMP or any other Trek film there.
And the scene on the Bird of Prey at the end with Spock in the gunner's chair - great. As is the ending with the zooming out to the closing credits. That scene was copied almost to the last minute detail in First Contact. Just the bar instead of the camp-fire.
All in all I like TFF. I enjoy the jokes (ESPECIALLY Scotty knocking himself out!) and my only complaints are the really crappy VFX and the reuse of the Ent-D sets. It just doesn't fit when you see the warp core or the corridors of the D without any modifications. And yes, the turboshaft/deck count mistake IS unforgivable. Still, that's not enough to keep me from enjoying the film.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
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quote:Originally posted by Timo: "Early" scores? I had the displeasure of seeing "Bicentennical Man" recently, and found that I could still enjoy the movie by closing my eyes, listening to the music and thinking that I was watching "Wrath of Khan".
When Horner is great, he is great. In ST2 especially so. Provided you don't mind the similarities to "Jumanji" and stuff. And he's *not* a one-trick horse, as the "Mark of Zorro" score was great in a very different way. It's just that he has enough greatness in him for about one movie per decade...
Timo Saloniemi
Most of the memorable stuff in ZORRO is just another iteration of his BRAINSTORM stuff, mainly Louise Fletcher's heart attack. As much as I enjoyed the movie, I haven't upgraded from letterbox VHS on Zorro, mainly cuz I keep being distracted by the score. It is a lot like the battle cues in ALIENS that sound exactly like KHAN, which sounds just like WOLFEN, or the stealing the enterprise music that is in UNCOMMON VALOR.
To be fair, the same thing happens on most of Horner's 'modern action' movies as well ... 48 HRS and GORKY PARK and COMMANDO all use pretty much the same cues and the same orchestrations in the same kinds of scenes. Even though he does do some expert steals on occasion (parts of KHAN, for example), he usually makes the most generic choices in terms of practically re-sampling his own stuff time & again.
-------------------- Achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it.
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Ah, that may explain it then. I've never seen UNCOMMON VALOR. Probably why so much of TSFS sounds fairly original to me (barring what he reused from TWoK). I particularly love the "Spacedock" and "Stealing the Enterprise" themes -- didn't know the latter was lifted from one of his other movies.
However, you must realize familiarity will out. Unlike you, I do not hear the UNCOMMON VALOR score while watching TSFS, but if I ever see UNCOMMON VALOR, I will only be able to hear the score from TSFS.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: However, you must realize familiarity will out. Unlike you, I do not hear the UNCOMMON VALOR score while watching TSFS, but if I ever see UNCOMMON VALOR, I will only be able to hear the score from TSFS.
--Jonah
Oh, the familiarity issue is absolutely a legit argument, I understand completely. Most Horner dates back to before his dad was out of diapers, to Prokofiev's film music, but if you start picking the nits to that degree, folks just kind of roll eyes at you.
But the thing that used to drive me crazy was when people bitched that TREK V 'stole' the theme to TNG ... you would not believe the number of folks back in 89 who didn't recognize the source for both being TMP.
-------------------- Achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it.
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*sigh* Yes I would. I remember being sooooo grumpy back in '87 when everyone was loving the "new" theme for TNG, and would look at me blankly when I told them it was just the recycled TMP theme.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:But the thing that used to drive me crazy was when people bitched that TREK V 'stole' the theme to TNG ... you would not believe the number of folks back in 89 who didn't recognize the source for both being TMP.
I think most people were in a groggy slumber through most of that movie, so you can forgive them for not recalling the theme tune when they heard it again later.
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