posted
they needed to wind up on the other ship to live. there is no bartering position from a dying planet.
Funny, then, that they bartered their way off...
You know, I'm sorry if you can't stand people telling you they disagree with you. One of these days you're gonna run into someone who you can't tell to fuck themselves without paying a price you don't want to pay. Hopefully by then you'll have grown up, though.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Personally, I agree with a lot of what kmart had to say about Treks III and IV. I also disagree with a number of his thoughts, but viva la diff, eh?
Where the "conversation" went from there was more overdramatic than "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!"
I think Guardian2000 hit on something, insomuch as everyone has their own criteria for what's good and bad. One man's good characterization is to another ham-fisted and clich�.
For instance, some people talk about the added depth given the characters in some of the films, like TWOK. But, to my eye, there's never any depth shown...there's just a scene or two where they say this or that somewhat-meaningful-thing and then forget about it amongst the action and the pointless throwaways given the supporting cast to justify their paychecks. I'm sure many here would disagree, but what to me is strong characterization has never been in evidence in any Trek film.
Back to Trek V, I promised Mim a counter-review, and it's gonna come. But in advance of that, le me say the one thing I do appreciate about Trek V is that it is a much better looking film (cinematography wise) than its two immediate predecessors. It's actually close to being a good looking movie. Too bad the effort was squandered on such a weak and misguided screenplay.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Magnus: "To the rest of you, go fuck yourselves,"
Hey, not all of us are Gays and Lesbians.
Oh, wait.
Wait.
Someone get me the tranquilizer darts and the shotgun...
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
Why is it that the 'best' movie has the 'worst' score!?!
Cuz it AIN'T the best movie? [/QB]
Well that is why I put best in commas.
quote: There are small slivers of GEN that sound great (the stuff with Kirk aboard the -B is pretty solid), but most of that McCarthy score sounds like graduation music to me (a criticism I apply to a lot of film scoring, esp when John Williams decides to phone a film in.) [/QB]
Hehehe. Probably the last 'good' thing JW has scored is Hedwig's Theme from Harry Potter.
There are parts of Gen I like too. It's underrated yet sorta annoying at the same time.
quote:
I think the 'missing score' in the bunch is what Horner might have done if they could have afforded him for TUC. I think he got a little bit more sophisticated by 1990 or so before slipping back into his usual routine, and he might have delivered something a bit off the beaten path that was still catchy at times (the actual TUC score is effective film music, but I don't like listening to it apart from the film.) [/QB]
Well the interesting thing is too - Nick Myer wanted to use the Planets Suite by Holst!! That would have been crazy - although Eidelman did come up with something reminiscent but individual in it's own right.
I HAVE to so agree with you about TUC sounding fantastic and being the best score when watching the movie but when you actually listen to the score by itself - it's not that fun to listen to. What is it with that!?! I'd rather just listen to the Planets. But I always loved the TUC score - when watching the movie - especially the intro/start before the explosion of Praxis!
quote:Originally posted by kmart: You've got tremendous potential squandered visually (not having them tap into a klingon cam so that Kirk can SEE his son die, justifying his collapse, is so fucking stupid) and dramatically (esp w/ regard to how easily the Enterprise is sacrificed and the whole non-logic of beaming down to a disintegrating planet instead of to a damaged small-crewed vessel.)
No, David's death is better the way it is, because it comes as even more of a shock to Kirk. There's a noise, he wonders what is going on, then the person from the race who hides their emotions has to matter-of-factly inform him that his son is dead. His collapse afterwards is brilliant, one of Kirk's best moments in the movies.
The Enterprise is sacrificed easily? I wouldn't say so. It was payment (along with David's death) for getting Spock back. It was due to be decommisioned anyway, but this way it got to go out helping our heroes to fulfil their mission of bring Spock back.
And the other point has already been addressed.
quote:Apart from the continuing Picard/Data show aspect, FC is plain-out misstructured as well ... it would probably have worked better to have the E-E duck out on the continuing battle with the cube to chase the sphere back through time, so then an hour or so later we could have a more extended and exciting finale that involved the E-E returning to century 24 and helping destroy the cube at the END of the movie.
Oh yes, that would be much better. Then we'd get the climax of the Phoenix going to warp, and Picard killing the Queen, followed by the resolution of the whole "First Contact" idea where the Vulcans appear, followed by ANOTHER climax involving a Big Star Wars-Type Battle, and then ANOTHER resolution showing...what?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Slight;y off topic, but along the same lines, this was posted over at SSM forums:
quote: Did anyone else see Star Trek VI as a big Scooby Doo episode?
(the would-be assassin has just fallen to his death.)
(Kirk in a red Ascot) - "This isn't Klingon blood, and when we remove the mask, we'll discover the identity of the Khitomer Sniper."
*peel*
(Everyone) - "It's Colonel West!"
(Uhura, back in a skimpy 60's dress) - "And the Romulan Ambassador was his partner!"
(Romulan Ambassador) - "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling Feds and that Klingon dog!"
(Michael Dorn) - "Reah! Rooby rooby ROO!!!"
This sums up my evaluation of STVI as well.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Well done. Everyone else was making those jokes about 12 years ago, but it's good to see you're making the effort.
Hey, why doesn't Professor X just use the Enterprise against Magneto? And what if Archer were actually not Archer, but, like, was "leaping" from "place" "to" "place"? Eh? EH? I'll ask the audience. You are the weakest link. Etc.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
You've been online yakking about trek for TEN YEARS!?! Holy fuck. I thought I was an uber-geek and I've only been online for a year and a half...
Sir, I salute your unfuckability!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by kmart: Given how nitpicky everybody is round here about OBERTHs and other classes of ship, I'm amazed at the fucked up standards you seem to hold to on other matters.
That's not true. Flare does tend to be a more technically oriented board, but there are plenty of us who are focused on dramatic/cinematic standards. The treknology stuff is interesting, but it ain't everything.
quote:Originally posted by kmart: This place is unfortunately turning out to be as lame as trekbbs ... to those who DO have minds here, adieu. To the rest of you, go fuck yourselves, it'll be the only pleasure you can provide, going by the non-think 'tudes.
Hey, no need to storm off, man. Because someone prefers 'First Contact' over 'TMP' doesn't make them stupid. It just makes them after different things. I think the miniature works in FC rides roughshod over even TWOK, but fx are not my primary criteria. Perhaps also because continuity and scientific plausibility aren't my main criteria, I feel that TWOK is the best movie ever made. But other people will think differently and those people probably aren't writers, kmart. So storming off isn't going to change their minds and it's going to reduce the population of sane people on this board, so don't let them get to you.
OTOH I like that sense of powerlessness that Kirk had having to only being able to listen to Savik tell him his son was dead. That impotence combined with scuttling his own ship really constasts nicely with the exciting and empowering theft of the Enterprise/sabotage of the Excelsior. There were some ridiculous dramatic problems with the picture and the Kirk vs. Kruge fight is funny every time, but I felt it was pretty good. And my dad likes 4 the best, so it can't be that awful.
-------------------- "Nah. The 9th chevron is for changing the ringtone from "grindy-grindy chonk-chonk" to the theme tune to dallas." -Reverend42
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Balaam Xumucane: Hey, no need to storm off, man. Because someone prefers 'First Contact' over 'TMP' doesn't make them stupid.
No. It makes them normal.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by kmart: hey, feel free moron, just keep in mind I'm not applying trekkienut standards, just dramatic and cinematic ones.
Given how nitpicky everybody is round here about OBERTHs and other classes of ship, I'm amazed at the fucked up standards you seem to hold to on other matters.
And as to the other guy ... they needed to wind up on the other ship to live. there is no bartering position from a dying planet. You think there's a better one down there? no. If you don't get it ... well, why bother, I'm done here.
This place is unfortunately turning out to be as lame as trekbbs ... to those who DO have minds here, adieu. To the rest of you, go fuck yourselves, it'll be the only pleasure you can provide, going by the non-think 'tudes.
In the end I think maybe there's only sanity on starfarer and ilmfan boards.
Well, that certainly didint take long did it? Can anyone confirm this was'nt the return of Mountain Troll? I'd have thought not, but that parting shot has me wondering...
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
As a side note, I'm watching Shatner's greatest performance. Airplane II. He so really funny in that! Intentionally even! Me am good translator!
[ October 29, 2003, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Wow Jason, I didn't know you where Korean.. hmm.
Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
"But other people will think differently and those people probably aren't writers, kmart."
Oh, hey, if you haven't PITCHED A STORY TO PARAMOUNT at least once in your LONG AND PROSPEROUS career, then your ideas cannot POSSIBLY have merit because, as we all know, the standards held by mere simpletons like you and me are so fucked up as to be irreconcilable with those of freelancing writers of kmart's stature and endowment.
Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged
Printer-friendly view of this topic
