-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:But the thing that used to drive me crazy was when people bitched that TREK V 'stole' the theme to TNG ... you would not believe the number of folks back in 89 who didn't recognize the source for both being TMP.
I think most people were in a groggy slumber through most of that movie, so you can forgive them for not recalling the theme tune when they heard it again later.
That's a pretty tired and hoary old argument, mate. With that same kind of 'sharpheaded' thinking in mind, I suppose sequel films wouldn't have needed bumpy-headed klingons or the refit version of the E, since audiences would have been in that "groggy slumber" and wouldn't recall what the aliens or the starship looked like.
And I doubt any of the folks who DID later nod off were feeling too sleepy when the OPENING CREDITS played. I don't think a main theme ever etched itself in my mind any stronger on first hearing than that of TMP ... except maybe PATTON, which was JG again, nearly a decade earlier.
-------------------- Achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it.
Registered: Jul 2003
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I rented the DVD to see the extras and the Rockman test IS pretty bad. The costume would've been salvageable if you had someone who knew how to move in it, but the guy in the suit just lumbers around, and whoever's working the animatoric face isn't getting it to do anything interesting. Hell, even the Alien from the film of the same name looked pretty bad whenever they held on it too long.
Not that I'm defending the Rockman as a concept. It was a pretty weak idea for ending the film, even assuming they had the 10 Shatner wanted.
Makes me wonder what happened to the suit, tho!
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by kmart: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Timo: [qb] "Early" scores? I had the displeasure of seeing "Bicentennical Man" recently, and found that I could still enjoy the movie by closing my eyes, listening to the music and thinking that I was watching "Wrath of Khan". It is a lot like the battle cues in ALIENS that sound exactly like KHAN, which sounds just like WOLFEN, or the stealing the enterprise music that is in UNCOMMON VALOR.
"Stealing the Enterprise" from TSFS is one of the best movements of a movie score - ever. It's so exciting and uplifiting and just leaves you in space.
The reuse of elements in TFF from TMP are just themes - but they are different - they have more emotion behind them. That beautiful theme for TFF is only in TFF - and it's a doozy. The music when they are climbing over the rocks on Sha Ka Ree - the WHOLE planet stuff is amazing. The feel of it - gives me goosebumps... and then when the Klingons appear and no one notices and that is worked into the Sha Ka Ree theme but is soon overwhelmed again - as no one notices them.
Rating the soundtracks:
TFF TSFS TUC FC TWOK TMP Gen Ins Nem TVH
Why is it that the 'best' movie has the 'worst' score!?!
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: From the STILLS the rockman looks good... rather reminiscent - of course of "The Beast" from Season 4 of Angel.
So who were the Rock people supposed to be - inidigenous inhabitants of the planet? Other prisoners on the planet? The ones who imprisoned 'god'?
Pretty sure the rock guy was supposed to be the remains of the God/Devil thing (though in earlier more expansive versions, the 'imps' and such that pursue KSM are there (in a different form) before any attack from the E happens, so they were minions before, as opposed to remnants (or a single remnant) in the later incarnation.
Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Rating the soundtracks:
TFF TSFS TUC FC TWOK TMP Gen Ins Nem TVH
Why is it that the 'best' movie has the 'worst' score!?! [/QB]
Cuz it AIN'T the best movie? (I used to always rank III & IV, the Nimoy-directed pics -- along with FIRST CONTACT -- as the worst Trekflicks, each for different reasons, though NEM definitely challenges those in a lot of ways.)
I DO agree with you on how good the TFF score is, especially in the earth and god planet sequences. Some other parts sound a little too much like RAMBO, though.
I think TMP and TFF are the best scores by far, and TWOK has got an awesomely fun score to listen to, despite its unoriginality. Back when friends and I made super-8 films, we used to always score them with TWOK battle cues.
There are small slivers of GEN that sound great (the stuff with Kirk aboard the -B is pretty solid), but most of that McCarthy score sounds like graduation music to me (a criticism I apply to a lot of film scoring, esp when John Williams decides to phone a film in.)
I think the 'missing score' in the bunch is what Horner might have done if they could have afforded him for TUC. I think he got a little bit more sophisticated by 1990 or so before slipping back into his usual routine, and he might have delivered something a bit off the beaten path that was still catchy at times (the actual TUC score is effective film music, but I don't like listening to it apart from the film.)
-------------------- Achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it.
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I really like the TMP (DE?) intro. Listening to that great epic theme with a near black screen (apart from some faint stars streaking by) for minutes. Classy.
quote:Originally posted by kmart: I used to always rank III & IV, the Nimoy-directed pics -- along with FIRST CONTACT -- as the worst Trekflicks
You are a madman.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by kmart: I used to always rank III & IV, the Nimoy-directed pics -- along with FIRST CONTACT -- as the worst Trekflicks
You are a madman.
No, but I do have an eye for a well-composed frame, something that is largely absent from the Nimoy pics (odd, given his bent for still photography), and I loathe the way ILM took over designing so many elements in the Nimoy films.
III is a squandered opportunity to do a really significant character piece and still deliver action ... it has the most absurd science ... it is much easier for me to buy into V's science goofs than III's ... 'get him off the planet and he'll stop aging ... does that mean if plot complication Q came in and moved the planet to a different orbit, it would stop aging? or if you just levitated a chunk of it 50 feet off the surface it would stop aging? Imbecilic writing, insulting in the extreme.
You've got tremendous potential squandered visually (not having them tap into a klingon cam so that Kirk can SEE his son die, justifying his collapse, is so fucking stupid) and dramatically (esp w/ regard to how easily the Enterprise is sacrificed and the whole non-logic of beaming down to a disintegrating planet instead of to a damaged small-crewed vessel.) III needed a much better screenplay and a visual stylist who could at least deliver live-action that approximated the slickness of the fx. It needed somebody other than Bennett writing, that is for sure.
IV is just a one-viewing movie that photographically is a disaster (nomination notwithstanding) with all that smoke everywhere (and I mean everywhere, not just the BOP -- check for the damn CLOUD BANK Chekov runs through while indoors aboard the carrier Enterprise.) It is funny at times, has a very nice series of payoffs at the end, and has zero resonance and a doze-off factor that is unbelievably high for me.
FC is just pathetic. It has wonderful ship miniature fx, especially the PHOENIX launch and many E-E shots, but the lameass Cochrane stuff is like seeing Earl Holliman in FORBIDDEN PLANET -- but in 1996!
And the 'let's give the stars scenery to chew' stuff is just over the top and embarassing -- 'the line must be drawn here' has got to rank among the alltime lamest line readings in feature trek, along with Shatner's 'Klingon Bastards in III and his variations on 'omigod' in TMP & TWOK.
Apart from the continuing Picard/Data show aspect, FC is plain-out misstructured as well ... it would probably have worked better to have the E-E duck out on the continuing battle with the cube to chase the sphere back through time, so then an hour or so later we could have a more extended and exciting finale that involved the E-E returning to century 24 and helping destroy the cube at the END of the movie.
If you can't see the validity of these points, then I put it to you that YOU are the madman.
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-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
not having them tap into a klingon cam so that Kirk can SEE his son die, justifying his collapse, is so fucking stupid
Says you. Having him just listen to it has more effect for me.
esp w/ regard to how easily the Enterprise is sacrificed and the whole non-logic of beaming down to a disintegrating planet instead of to a damaged small-crewed vessel.
The one that they could easily be trapped on upon beaming to, should Kruge be smart, as he was?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by kmart: If you can't see the validity of these points, then I put it to you that YOU are the madman.
Hey cool!
See, I've been thinking of making an off-topic page on my site. It would deal primarily with how different standards are used by fans when approaching different films, and how if one were to try hard enough, one could 'prove' the craptastic-ness of absolutely any of the Trek films, episodes, et cetera. To do so, one simply finds something to criticize and criticizes it loudly, whether the criticism is warranted or not, and then makes claims regarding what they feel would be superior (if necessary, stated as loosely as possible to allow the higher level of crappiness of their idea be well hidden, thereby allowing their concept to seem to flourish).
Given that your rant fits right in with that, mind if I quote you?
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
hey, feel free moron, just keep in mind I'm not applying trekkienut standards, just dramatic and cinematic ones.
Given how nitpicky everybody is round here about OBERTHs and other classes of ship, I'm amazed at the fucked up standards you seem to hold to on other matters.
And as to the other guy ... they needed to wind up on the other ship to live. there is no bartering position from a dying planet. You think there's a better one down there? no. If you don't get it ... well, why bother, I'm done here.
This place is unfortunately turning out to be as lame as trekbbs ... to those who DO have minds here, adieu. To the rest of you, go fuck yourselves, it'll be the only pleasure you can provide, going by the non-think 'tudes.
In the end I think maybe there's only sanity on starfarer and ilmfan boards.
-------------------- Achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it.
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