posted
I thought it was quite ridiculous of Captain Kirk to surrender as the klingons were about to fire back.
He should never have said "We surrender,signal our surrender".
All he had to do was raise shields take a couple of hits then target and disable their weapons.He had a dozen witnesses on the bridge to confirm that he did not order firing on the klingon vessel.Once the klingons were disabled and their shields down they beam them over to the Enterprise into the brig and explain they never fired.
Also it was quite ridiculous that they coud not find the point of origin of the bird of prey photon torpedeos and also that no vibration/noise was generated at all as the torps were never fired from the Fanterprise from their launch points as you would feel due to reaction due to high launch speed...meaning due to absence of vibration wouid confirm to all that no torps left the Enterpris.Also the klingons never replayed the video of the torps to show it did not come from the Enterprise but from below it.
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posted
Oh, that's brilliant: shoot at the Klingons to prove they hadn't shot at them.
From the Klingon point of view, do you forget that Klingons aren't likely to investigate first and shoot second? They shoot first and investigate later ... if ever.
Kirk knew that he had to defuse the situation as quickly as possible. A firefight between the Klingon flagship and a Federation starship -- following the assassination of the Klingon leader by Starfleet members! -- would've provoked a war, which was precisely what Kirk's job was to avoid.
And are you so sure that the Enterprise could've defeated the Klingon ship? Even disabled, it could've mauled the Enterprise pretty easily. How many would've needlessly died?
posted
When you're being accused of assassinating someone, it's general good policy to not respond by trying to blow their ship out of the sky. If just makes it look like you're finishing what you started.
Registered: Jul 2006
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esecallum
Ex-Member
posted
quote:Originally posted by Zipacna: When you're being accused of assassinating someone, it's general good policy to not respond by trying to blow their ship out of the sky. If just makes it look like you're finishing what you started.
I said disable their ship and beam them to the brig to carefully explain to them that we did not fire...the mere fact we are trying to explain to them would be proof we did not fire...after all why would we bother?.
posted
Aside from the obvious, the slight chink in that plan is that the couldn't beam them directly to the brig because site to site transports weren't possible then. As I recall the E-B was the first Enterprise that could do that. Also, I doubt they'd have enough space in the brig for several hundred pissed off and wounded Klingons (some of whom BTW witnessed two Starfleet Officers assassinate Gorkon), given that the Brig only holds three.
Add to that the fact that Kang was in on the deal, I doubt he'd listen to any explanation because he KNEW they didn't fire. Which was kind of the point, he wanted to start a shooting war. Even if Kronos One was disabled, you can bet a distress signal had already been sent out after the first volly and once word got out that the Chancellor is dead and General Kang is a prisoner on board Enterprise what do you think the rest of the Empire would do? Send them tea and dumplings?
quote:From the Klingon point of view, do you forget that Klingons aren't likely to investigate first and shoot second? They shoot first and investigate later ... if ever.
Actually I believe official procedure is to shoot, destroy, shout, eat heart of enemy/die gloriously and go to sto-vo-kor (delete as appropriate), shout, drink Bloodwine, shout, head butt each other, pass out, dream of death, glory and Tribbles being squished, wake up, shout, make up exciting and slightly exaggerated song of the GLORIOUS CONQUEST, shout, find someone else to kill and repeat procedure, shout.
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Also, how naive to think that enemies of several hundred years would listen to an 'explanation' given to them in the brig, whether they were in on it or not, and just have a hearty laugh, clap some shoulders, and go back home.
Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Aside from the obvious, the slight chink in that plan is that the couldn't beam them directly to the brig because site to site transports weren't possible then. As I recall the E-B was the first Enterprise that could do that.
I was just about to say that the original 1701 did it in "Day of the dove" but I think that might be wrong - I have a vague recollection that Kirk and Spock beamed into engineering but I think it was from a transporter pad, not site to site. Ah well. Where does it say that the Enterprise-B was the first ship to do that?
As for the original point of this thread, I have to say that firing on a Klingon ship (even to disable) is probably not the best way to get them to calm down and listen to reason...and that's not even taking into account the fact that they would be firing on the ship carrying the Klingon chancellor! Bad enough any old Klingon ship but that one? That escalates "incident" to "all out war" right there!
Besides, if the Enterprise fired, how would a detailed analysis later down the line (if one was carried out) tell the difference between Enterprise-inflicted damage and that inflicted by the mystery torpedoes?
I think Kirk's plan was the right one - maybe he was even banking on Klingon psychology a bit. Would they consider it honourable to fire on a ship that had surrendered?
Oh, and it was Chang was in on the plan, Kang was entirely innocent and about to run into Captain Sulu at the time of the incident in question! :-)
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: Uh, you guys know that 'esecallum' is a totally new poster right? why even talk about ST:VI?
Because heavens forfend we actually talk about Star Trek in the Star Trek section of an internet forum. Good god, what was he thinking? Flay his hide! Take the skin from his bones! Hang him! Burn him! He's a witch!
Registered: Nov 2004
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
quote:I was just about to say that the original 1701 did it in "Day of the dove" but I think that might be wrong - I have a vague recollection that Kirk and Spock beamed into engineering but I think it was from a transporter pad, not site to site. Ah well. Where does it say that the Enterprise-B was the first ship to do that?
In Generations the E-B beams the El Aurians directly to sickbay, hence site-to-site as for that being the first Enterprise to do it, I think (memory fuzzy here) there was an earlier draft where Kirk is surprised by the order, not being familiar with the new ship's capabilities. Not proof for sure but it's a safe assumption as that is the earliest (chronologically) site-to-site we know about.
quote:Oh, and it was Chang was in on the plan, Kang was entirely innocent and about to run into Captain Sulu at the time of the incident in question! :-)
Bah! They all look and sound alike...and what about that smell!? Top of the line models, yadda yadda yadda.
quote:Originally posted by esecallum: I said disable their ship and beam them to the brig to carefully explain to them that we did not fire...the mere fact we are trying to explain to them would be proof we did not fire...after all why would we bother?.
The thing is, by the time you get to the explaining stage (assuming your ship isn't actually blown up by the Klingons first) you have actually fired on them and lost any proof you had that you had a full compliment of torpedoes before the battle. But then, I guess causing a diplomatic incident by getting into a battle with the Klingon flagship you were meant to be escorting is a perfect way to prove your innocence. You've not only made the situation worse, you've also dishonoured the Klingons by taking them prisoner! Taking a Klingon's honour will not result in peace.
Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Fawn = female deer.
Indeed it is, but FawnDoo <> female anything :-)
It's an interesting idea that the E-B was among the first ships to have site-to-site transport capability, but I'm glad they dropped the idea of Kirk being surprised at it. This is, after all, the man who kept so up to date with the ship's design he could reconfigure it's deflector dish in an emergency situation, so I would imagine he'd be just as up to date with other systems and newer features. Unless of course the designers of the E-B put a huge red button in deflector control labelled "in case of being trapped in an energy ribbon, press here!" ;-)
-------------------- Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
FawnDoo's right: In DAY OF THE DOVE, Kirk & the Kang's consort do indeed site-to-site transport, but it's a very risky procedure and Scotty isn't sure it can be done properly. Fair to say that the Enterprise B is the first ship on which site-to-site transport is a safe, standard operation.
quote:I said disable their ship and beam them to the brig to carefully explain to them that we did not fire...the mere fact we are trying to explain to them would be proof we did not fire...after all why would we bother?.
No it wouldn't, especially since by your theory, we would've had to fire on them before beaming them over. How much credibility are you going to have? "Well, we didn't fire you on before we actually did."
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