posted
And Kirk called it "intraship beaming" in DotD.
Registered: Feb 2004
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Right, perhaps beaming from the transporter room into another area of the ship is risky, but doable, since they have all the schematics of the ship and know precisely where everything is, so they can set the coordinates "blind." However, site-to-site transport seems to involve holding the transport-ee in the pattern buffer and then sending them straight on to another destination without ever materializing them on the transporter pad. I'd think that's a wholly different operation from what was done in DotD.
Registered: Jul 2005
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esecallum
Ex-Member
posted
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: Uh, you guys know that 'esecallum' is a totally new poster right? why even talk about ST:VI?
i thought he was supposed to say something about himself FIRST before lighting any topic fires?
there's better things to discuss that has already been talked into the dirt (Pretty sure Bernd has covered all of that at AES...)
esecallum, PLEASE... explain who you are, where you are from and what you political views about Pengiun Pr0n are, please good sir?
I am 19,I work in Washington state.I do research into medical claims by Big Pharma as well as having a broad range of interests.
I find it offensive that you mention penguin pron on a family site.
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esecallum
Ex-Member
posted
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Aside from the obvious, the slight chink in that plan is that the couldn't beam them directly to the brig because site to site transports weren't possible then.
Point 1 :-
The site to site transporter is a trivial issue.
Ok beam them to the transporter pad.
I meant only beam over the dozen or so COMMAND CREW/leaders of the Klingons,after all it is they who need to be convinced. No point in beaming over the cook and the cleaner.
The Day of the Dove episodes proves it is possible.
point 2:-
All right then... he,Kirk, could just raise shields and go to warp speed away from any conflict.
As the Klingon ship was only damaged,they could explain it away that it was not them by showing them the logs and the neutrino surge and video logs showing Kirk never ordered any firing.
Remember they had video logs of the bridge in TOS as in the Finnegan pod episode.
Also why did the conspirators on the Klingon ship NOT fire anyway on the unshielded and undefended Enterprise after surrendering?
I mean nothing could stop them.3 shots and it would be toast.
Was it Chekov who said if "if they fire with shields down we could not respond"...
I thought Kkklingons don't take prisoners.
I mean if they had fired and destroyed the Enterprise anyway even after the surrendering they would still have achieved the same result of war.
Also the SHIELDED Enterprise always wins against a Klingon d7 katinga warship.Remember the Elaan of Troyius episode?
Also it was only the low value servant chancellor on board.It was not the Klingon Emperor.
Kirk could have explained that if he had wanted to destroy the D7 he could have,why would he just stop with damaging it slightly.Think about it. Why would he want to assassinate a Klingon leader he had not even met or even seen what he looks like?
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
1) "Family site"?? 2) "Kkklingons"?? 3) It's K'Tinga. 4) Kronos One was never canonically said to be a K'Tinga, or a D7, or anything else, to my recollection. 5) "Low value servant chancellor"? What?? The Chancellor was the leader of the High Council; the High Council led the Klingon government at that time. There wasn't an emperor between 2069 and 2369 (when the clone of Kahless was reinstated in a ceremonial position). I reiterate - there was no Klingon emperor during the time of TOS, or any of the TOS movies.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
A fawn is not necessarily a female deer, but rather simply a young one. The term that denotes a female deer is doe. Clearly, someone hasn't seen The Sound Of Music in a while...
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As pointed out, Gen. Chang, on the Klingon ship, as part of the conspiracy, knows for a fact that the Enterprise didn't fire. He doesn't care. Even if he wasn't aware, he still wouldn't care, ESPECIALLY after the Enterprise had opened fire on him.
quote:point 2:-
If the Enterprise ran away, the Klingons would be able to claim that they'd done so to destroy evidence that they'd fired on the Chancellor's ship.
If the Enterprise took defensive or offensive action, or ran away, they'd be as good as admitting guilt. What other option does that leave Kirk?
quote:I thought Kkklingons don't take prisoners.
You have to consider who said that, and if they were speaking from a factual basis or what they'd heard from rumor. Since Kirk & McCoy were taken prisoner, it's pretty clear the Klingons do, in fact, take prisoners. Actually, in DAY OF THE DOVE, Kang took Kirk and his landing party prisoner, too.
quote:Why would he want to assassinate a Klingon leader he had not even met or even seen what he looks like?
Did you even SEE Star Trek VI? Don't you remember his personal log from the film? The one the Klingons brought up in court? He hates Klingons. As a race. Because a Klingon killed his son.
Have you seen the film? I just ask, because it seems like you haven't. Anyway, that would've been Kirk's motive to fire. Doesn't matter if he didn't have one, though, from a Klingon perspective, Kirk could've just as easily been ordered to assassinate the Chancellor as a precursor to a Federation invasion of the Empire.
quote:Also it was only the low value servant chancellor on board.It was not the Klingon Emperor.
That'd be like assassinating the Prime Minister of England and then claiming he was "low value" because the Queen wasn't touched. Except that the Queen doesn't have any real political power to begin with, and the Klingons hadn't had an emperor for centuries by the time of Star Trek VI.
quote:Originally posted by esecallum: Why would he want to assassinate a Klingon leader he had not even met or even seen what he looks like?
"I've never trusted Klingons...and I never will. I can never forgive them...for the death of my boy."
It's one of the most quoted and parodied lines in all of Trek, and comes from this movie...and is said by Kirk! It's in fact a major plot point!
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Since we're in a quoting mood, consider the Klingon's opinion of him - "James.T Kirk: Renegade and Terrorist". Yeah, I'm sure they'll listen to any explanation from THAT guy.
Surrendering was the ONLY alternative to all out war. Again I quote "I will not be the instigator of full scale War, on the eve of universal peace".
If he opened fire on Kronos One, win or loose the battle there'd be War. If he ran away, he'd prove his cowardice in the eyes of the Klingons and there'd be War. If he kidnapped the bridge crew and tried to talk them around, the rest of the Klingon crew (remember the one's that saw the two Starfleet Officers beam over and go on a killing spree?) would blow the Enterprise out of the sky while Kirk's down in the brig with the slide shows, pointy stick and visual aids about how he's such a nice guy.
Also, even IF the chancellor was a "low value servant", which he clearly is not, there's still the oh so sticky point of firing on an enemy ship under a flag of truce. Added to that you have trespassing, assault and murder with witnesses to say the who dun did it.
Oh and not that anyone but Chang knew it at the time, but there was a cloaked BOP parked right underneath them, if they turned and ran to "avoid any engagement" you can bet they'd find a mysterious torpedo flying straight up their arse.
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Since we're in a quoting mood, consider the Klingon's opinion of him - "James.T Kirk: Renegade and Terrorist". Yeah, I'm sure they'll listen to any explanation from THAT guy.
Surrendering was the ONLY alternative to all out war. Again I quote "I will not be the instigator of full scale War, on the eve of universal peace".
If he opened fire on Kronos One, win or loose the battle there'd be War. If he ran away, he'd prove his cowardice in the eyes of the Klingons and there'd be War. If he kidnapped the bridge crew and tried to talk them around, the rest of the Klingon crew (remember the one's that saw the two Starfleet Officers beam over and go on a killing spree?) would blow the Enterprise out of the sky while Kirk's down in the brig with the slide shows, pointy stick and visual aids about how he's such a nice guy.
Also, even IF the chancellor was a "low value servant", which he clearly is not, there's still the oh so sticky point of firing on an enemy ship under a flag of truce. Added to that you have trespassing, assault and murder with witnesses to say the who dun did it.
Oh and not that anyone but Chang knew it at the time, but there was a cloaked BOP parked right underneath them, if they turned and ran to "avoid any engagement" you can bet they'd find a mysterious torpedo flying straight up their arse.
Which would have REVEALED the EXISTENCE OF THE REAL CULPRITS AND PLAYED INTO KIRK'S HANDS and they could deal with the BOP and they could still defend themselves.
in Elaan of Troyius the Enterprise after suffering numerous hits by the Klingon d7 used the dilithium crystals from the necklace to restore power and then fired only 2 or 3 shots at the d7 which was "damaged" according to spock and then ran away which implies that another 2 or 3 shots and it would have been destroyed.
Do you agree?
Do you recall that episode?
Also going back to TUC,Kirk could have raised shields taken a few hits and fired back with the perfectly legitimate reason that it was self defense and totally destroyed the Kronos 1.It was just one ship after all and the Klingons were in no position to go to war anyway as Spock said they had only 50 years of life left.
Investigation would have revealed that it was a Klingon bird of prey or Kirk could even have claimed it was a cloaked Romulan bird of prey had fired to stop a Federation/Klingon Alliance and shifted attention away from Starfleet and it was not the Enterprise which had fired those initial torpedos and in the film the Romulans Ambassador Nerchnov had said "there will never be a better time" to strike at the Klingons who were weak economically and in their military power.
As the Kronos would be destroyed no one could contradict Kirk and his logs and no way the Klingons would make war about it as they were weak from the explosian and Starfleet would have been saved from the burden of looking after billions of uncontrollable Klingons which would have further weakened Starfleet and also allowed internal factionalism by the Klingon refugees to disrupt peace within the Federation and in fact would actually be an achilles heel for the Federation allowing the Romulans to take advantage of this.
Thus Kirk by being hard nosed and pragmatic would actually be doing a favour to the Federation in the long run by making the Klingons even more suspicious of Romulans.
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posted
Elaan of Troyus was several years earlier. Klingon ships no doubt had improved technologically. While it's true that the Enterprise had improved in that same time period, there is no indication that the Enterprise could STILL outclass and defeat a D7, K'Tinga or the Chancellor's ship (for those who want to quibble over the class).
As pointed out numerous times above, the Chancellor was the highest political official of the Klingon Empire at that time. Killing him, even in self defense would have sparked an intergalactic incident.
Even as it was tensions were high. Not only was Starfleet considering a rescue operation but they were openly sharing this knowledge and tactical data with the Romulans.
Kirk DID NOT KNOW about the cloaked Bird of Prey. His choice to surrender vs. fight was not based upon knowledge of that ship.
Chang's Bird of Prey, however, would have proved to be a valuable witness for the Klingons. Evidence would have been fabricated to show that the Enterprise did fire upon Q'onos 1 first and then subsequently damaged or destroyed the ship. Enterprise records were already showing that they had fired first.
In fact, Chang would have then felt justified to decloak and join the assault against the Enterprise. It could then easily be claimed that the Klingons were suspicious of Starfleet and thus felt the need to keep a cloaked Bird of Prey nearby for escort and protection. Some lie would have been spun to explain the ships presence.
If you, in the Klingon's shoes, were to give Kirk the benefit of the doubt after A)He fired on your ship first and unprovoked and B)Fired again and disabled your ship or C)Fired again and destroyed your ship then you are probably a much better man than the Klingons.
The Klingons may have been weakened and a war may have exhausted them (which is really in question since they were still a strong empire 100 years later) but the Klingons aren't the type of species to simply ignore an incident like this. They would have rather died as a species fighting the Federation than to sit back and not retaliate against the murderers of their Chancellor.
Registered: Feb 2004
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
quote:Originally posted by esecallum:
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: Uh, you guys know that 'esecallum' is a totally new poster right? why even talk about ST:VI?
i thought he was supposed to say something about himself FIRST before lighting any topic fires?
there's better things to discuss that has already been talked into the dirt (Pretty sure Bernd has covered all of that at AES...)
esecallum, PLEASE... explain who you are, where you are from and what you political views about Pengiun Pr0n are, please good sir?
I am 19,I work in Washington state.I do research into medical claims by Big Pharma as well as having a broad range of interests.
I find it offensive that you mention penguin pron on a family site.
Heh, still think all your pulling is attention son. my point is, your new and seriously just making flames instead of DISCUSSION. you first post was a attack on a movie plot instead of a fact finding opion question, sir, thus why i attack YOU instead of you first post's intent (which i dont actually believe to be even anything to do with ST. i say again, dead topic, dead horse...
so put the flamer down (cause so am i at the moment) since the rest of the gang jumped on this horse with vengence, so be it. nit picking isn't always fun (unless it's Macross or Battletech. i'll dry that subject into the dirt on a bad day)
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
This isn't nit picking. This is like somebody arguing that we'd just nuked Cuba we could've avoided that whole missile crisis thing. Somebody who wasn't even sure where Cuba was or when the missile crisis took place. Also, I'm going to go masturbate to penguin porn.
Registered: Jul 2005
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Esecallum, please tell me you have no aspirations to foreign service duty.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: This isn't nit picking. This is like somebody arguing that we'd just nuked Cuba we could've avoided that whole missile crisis thing. Somebody who wasn't even sure where Cuba was or when the missile crisis took place. Also, I'm going to go masturbate to penguin porn.
Something like that is probably how the Mirror Universe got started. I mean someone making the wrong tactical decision with regards to something like Cuba, not masturbating over penguin porn. Although knowing how the Mirror Universe was portrayed, both could work...
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