posted
You might be better selecting members of this board as a ...cannonization board..... Informed,intelligent opinions, with much less fanboy "Lets have a giant supership" crap. Not that most trekkies dont have an informed opinion,but there are some that could use a bit of a wake-up beating.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Well I think TAS can be added to Canon-dom... cause I think the main two reasons Gene Roddenberry didn't think it was appropriate to have TAS as canon because of some of the 'silly' story lines... one was when the crew were miniaturised - this has been done - quite well actually now by DS9 "One Little Ship". And I think the other one was about people growing older but looking younger - reverse time or something... Voyager did that story in season 2's "Innocence"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
TAS had much sillier stuff than that. Personally, I'm in favour of a "selective" canonising of TAS, that is elements and characters that work (like the Antares used in TOS-R) ignore what doesn't work (like the forcefield belts and horribly ugly shuttles) with the exception of "yesteryear" not many of the stories themselves are salvageable IMHO and even then you can safely ignore the framing story.
posted
I don't remember the "forcefield belts" offhand (it's been a while since I watched any of TAS), but I believe TNG and DS9 both featured belts with shield generators on them.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
And some TNG novels featured those life-support belts as surplus from an earlier era as a nod to TAS. There was a lot of stuff Starfleet seemed to have been fiddling with around that time that they later streamlined or discarded. The TMP uniforms, tricorders, wrist communicators... the TAS life-support belts... You just don't see those into the 2280s.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I wouldn't mind seeing the canonization of some of the novels; specifically the "eighth season" of DS9, which are some of the best Star Trek novels out there. The Starfleet Corps of Engineers novellas are pretty good, too.
Canonization of the Enterprise novel "The Good that Men Do" would erase Trip's utterly pointless death in Enterprise's wretched finale.
-------------------- "Having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
As I recall, the whole point of those life support belts was that they could just put a glowy outline over the existing character cells, or something like that. I've never actually watched TAS, only read the Alan Dean Foster novelizations. Which tend to make an apparently light-hearted show a bit darker.
-------------------- I haul cardboard and cardboard accessories
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Almost. They also had a silvery belt added around the middle.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I don't pretend to know anything about Star Wars canonization, but isn't there some kind of 'graded' canonization there involving the novels and games? A framework like that might be something to think about...I've heard of "G-level canon" for example in relation to Star Wars...any Wars geeks here who know?
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
As far as I know there's the films, there's everything else (books, games comics) that are approved by the ranch and has to be incorporated in future titles then there's a bunch of stuff like the Holiday Special that's just ignored.
Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
in most of the current novela, they include a chart in each of the books where some titles sit in the time line, compared to the movies. i've noticed these in the RC series but the titles listed in the timeline as of 'True Colors', numbers in several dozen covering both ends of the movies...
though, that alone isn't the perverbial nod of cannonininty... titty, titty, titty...
posted
In star wars's case, everything official (not including fan fics i believe,)and I mean every thing, even those hideous star wars transformers that just came out, has to go through lucas or his companies, and be aproved by them, which I believe would make EVERYTHING cannon. But there are regulations that make sure that any authors and game makers dont step on established cannon, or create something that cant or wont happen in the SW universe. Likewise, Lucas and company can also choose to completely ignore a piece of the universe, like the holiday special, and completely de-cannonize it. If only they had that system in the Star Trek franchise....
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
And George always reserves the right to contradict anything -- even the movies.
But the Expanded Universe canon can't contradict the movies, and tries to avoid contradicting each other. But that means errors get perpetuated, too. Like the five-mile Super Star Destroyer, Rogue Squadron, Imperial uniforms and ranks (and what they mean), etc. A lot of game developers and authors just don't know enough about the universe they're playing around in.
That line is going to be blurred by the animated Clone Wars movie this summer, and the two TV series in development. And George has said he considers the storyline of The Force Unleashed video game to be as canon as the movies -- filling in the timeline between Episodes III and IV.
As for Star Trek... I object to the idea of picking and choosing episodes and movies. They may not be up to the quality of the better episodes, but "Spok's Brain" and Star Trek V still had their moments and shouldn't be left out just because of bad writing. And I include TAS in there, as well. Everything on-screen. Then the DS9 and Voyager Relaunch novels, New Frontier, the Titan books, S.C.E. All the other novels, comics, games... Some of them just don't fit in continuity, but most can be worked in somewhere. So my take is "canon until contradicted by onscreen material".
But when it comes ot resolving contradictions in the onscreen material? I'm in favour of retconning when the new version corrects or refines something that had come before. But retconning through laziness I can't stand -- when continuity is changed because the rpoducers or writers of a leter series can't be arsed to do their research or hire somone who knows the material.
Which is kinda how I feel about the Star Wars prequels. THey mess with the Original Trilogy too much. Which is why I got copies of the shooting scripts and rewrote them to see if it coould be done better. *heh*
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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Basically Star Wars has two separate continuities . . . dual canons. One is that of Lucas, and the other comes from the EU folks, who have their own (though it is generally inclusive of and subservient to that of Lucas).
"STARLOG: The Star Wars Universe is so large and diverse. Do you ever find yourself confused by the subsidiary material that's in the novels, comics, and other offshoots?
LUCAS: I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."
- George Lucas, Flannelled One, Aug. 2005 - "New Hopes" interview in Starlog #337
posted
Y'know I'm gonna have to read that "Good that Men Do" since everyone's liking it so much. Also, what's this I hear about an animated Clone Wars Movie? I only know of the two tv shows. Plus, I'd love to read your scripts Jonah.
Registered: Feb 2005
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