posted
We were comparing Voyager to a frog, but I see your point. Add some googly eyes to the front view and paint it green, and you got a bull frog on your hands.
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"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
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posted
I don't see why losing the Stargazer was such a huge screwup. It was an unprovoked attack by an unknown assailant. Just because the Enterprises have the Shield of Plot doesn't mean Starfleet doesn't expect losses. He cleared the court-martial fine, after all.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
True. But serving on a run-down overworked ship that got blown up, then doing nothing for 12 years or whatever hardly qualifies one to command the flagship. He was doing something big and secrety.
quote: Picard getting the E-D proves to me that there was another command between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. And I think it was something pretty important that no one seems to know about.
He was doing something. He was on a ship that rendezvoused with another ship carrying Tasha Yar, a year or two before taking command of the Enterprise. However, there's no proof that he was actually in command of the ship at the time. And someone does know about it; Ishara Yar, whom Picard told the story to.
If I had to guess, I'd say that he wasn't in command; he was just an observer or passenger. I say this because Picard never mentions another command other than the Stargazer, which he mentions a lot. Of course, I believe your point is that Picard never mentions another command because the command was secret. But then why would he tell Ishara about it, unless he just didn't care that she knew confidential information?
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Well, do we know how long the Enterprise D was in dry dock/being built for. It was one of the first Galaxy's launched ( 2nd or 3rd, no?) and therefore probably had a large testing stage, and the like.
Perhaps Picard could have actually been put in command of the Enterprise soon after her keel was laid, which coincidentally could have been soon after (from months to a year, for all we know he was taking some unused shore leave, not to mention that the court martial could have taken a long time) the Stargazer incident.
So, he could have supervised the construction/ initial fitting of equipment, or been given a temporary assignment, maybe a desk job, untill Enterprise was ready to launch.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
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posted
There were quite a few years that passed between the loss of the Stargazer and the launch of the Enterprise. And there wouldn't really be any reason to put a field officer in command of the ship while it's under constrution.
Picard tells Ishara that "his" ship had responded to the problem on whatever planet. Of course he also said that "her" ship had responded. So there's the possibility that he was in command, but he wouldn't necessarily have had to have been. He was on the planet, though, because he saw Tasha run through a mine field or something.
I just don't see Picard going from the captain of a nothing ship to commander of the flagship without some other qualification.
The reason that Picard never mentions another command is because, at the time the Ishara Yar episode was written, he was supposed to be refering to the Enterprise when he told the story of his ship responding. That was later contradicted by the flashback in AGT. But even within the episode it's contradicted, because he says that when he saw Tasha's heroics, he knew he wanted her on his "next" command. That only proves that he wasn't on the Enterprise yet, but doesn't prove he was in command of the ship that responded to the distress call. I still think he was though.
posted
That really depends on how you define a "nothing ship". Sure the Stargazer was old, but by most accounts she was way out there beyond the Federation frontier, probably raking up a number of successful first contacts (with the possible exception of Chalna, as it may or may not have been where Jack Crusher bought it) even skirting Ferengi space nearly a decade before first contact AND was involved in a truce offering during the Cardassian Wars. So perhaps from this we could conclude that he made quite a name for himself as a capable diplomat, an experienced frontier commander and a capable tactician...they even named a manoeuvre after him.
Still, I'm sure he had a command between the Stargazer and the E-D regardless.
posted
If he had a command in the interim, it was probably nothing eventful. Otherwise he would have mentioned it.
"There were quite a few years that passed between the loss of the Stargazer and the launch of the Enterprise. And there wouldn't really be any reason to put a field officer in command of the ship while it's under constrution"
Jonathan archer was given command of Enterprise while still under construction. Though he did have a part to play in the whole project so...
However, Will decker had command of the E-nil while it was undergoing it's refit, and he was supposed to take command afterwards for feild duty. He was a feild officer, as I believe he or Ilia mentioned that his ship/he was stationed at her home planet.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
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posted
Archer wasn't given command of Enterprise until she was for the most part complete. As for Will Decker, the Enterprise was probably still in commission during her conversion warranting the need for a CO of the ship... or Decker wasn't officially in command until her conversion was for the most part complete.
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Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
You're right that Picard likely scored some brownie points while on the Stargazer. He commanded the ship for quite a awhile too. It's also possible they were involved in some things we don't know about that would've made him even more visible to the brass.
I still think he commanded another ship though. And there are other reasons he might not discuss it alot other than it being uneventful. It could be classified.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Meheheh. Be thou careful for what thou wishest.
Isn't "cruiser" kind of a vague superclass anyway? Or is that 'battlecruiser'...
I don't like the Fed's evolution towards long and thin. I preferred tall and wide - the Galaxy's still my favorite design, although the Sovereign comes damn close.
That is what,I was trying to say,that many Voyager issues could,be solved by using,the Nebula class,as defined at the end of Generations.
The ship is a major,star of TOS and by putting,that splayed chicken intrepid class,they lost a major identity/star of the show.Voyager just lacked,any great distinction.
Image is vital in today's world.
A memorable image is worth money in the bank.
Look how much,multinationals spend/waste vast amounts of money on the correct image.An airline called British Airways spend $120 million painting the rudders,with stupid looking graffiti art after a consultant told them to do so as a joke.
The stupid chairman was fired 6 months later.
Anyone know which idiot designed/implemented the chicken Voyager?
The nebula class is bigger,and would have made awesome FX shots as the ship,turned or manoevered,with the large disc section.
It would have been magnificent.
If only they had tried harder.
I cry at the lost opportunity.
It would have presence,grace and momentum and majesty.
Majesty is very important in a lead ship.
Who else agrees with me on this very important matter?
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posted
Very important? For a series that's been over for years? And that none of us had any say in in the first place?
So to sum up, you feel you could have run the show better than the people who did, and that a kit-bashed Galaxy Class could've fixed most of Voyager's problems.
No. Making Voyager a Nebula Class ship would not have solved a single one of the show's problems. In fact, people would've said, "Why did they use a Nebula Class ship? They couldn't even come up with something new? Screw it... I'm going to watch The Weakest Link" Now, what they could've done is show more aspects of the ship that people were interested in, like the Aeroshuttle.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: You're right that Picard likely scored some brownie points while on the Stargazer. He commanded the ship for quite a awhile too. It's also possible they were involved in some things we don't know about that would've made him even more visible to the brass.
I still think he commanded another ship though. And there are other reasons he might not discuss it alot other than it being uneventful. It could be classified.
Oh I agree, we know he had another ship because of how he met Tasha. As for what he did and why we never heard any more about it, all we know is that nothing that went on on that ship directly impacted anything we saw on the show and there's the small fact that we didn't see these characters 24/7 and hear every last conversation everybody ever had...oh and the fact that Picard is a very private person.
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