posted
So, originally, they managed - without intending to - to create a show that appealed to everyone, and then proceeded to lose that audience. Now they alienate all the remaining fanbase in search of the holy grail, the show that appeals to everyone. To that aim, we got Insurrection. Trek X will doubtless lose all Logan's fan-oriented touches on the cutting-room floor in order to appeal to a wider audience. And now we get this abortion.
posted
I think the point that I was trying to make -- and Tom too -- is that people will care more if Enterprise has good stories and good acting. If it's like Voyager in regards to stories, acting, character development, etc., it'll go down the tubes.
I don't think a few continuity errors will cause the fan base to run screaming. Unless the above points already suck, in which case, no one will be watching it.
But, hey, you guys wanna miss out on what might be the best thing to happen to Trek since DS9? Be my guest.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** Card-Carrying Member of the FlareAPAO *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
You're in a mighty big illusion that you think this is going to be like DS9.
Where is Michael Piller? Where is Ronald Moore? Where is Ira Behr? These are the important creative pillars of DS9. They wrote, produced and directed. None of them are working on Trek now. You will never get another DS9 especially when their creative founders are no longer there.
I think Moore is with Frakes doing Roswell, and Piller, yes, he has the new Dead Zone project which I am looking more forward to see than Series V. One reason I may tune to Series V is only probably because I will be watching Dead Zone. I doubt they will ever go back to Trek.
Look how Series V has not included Rick Sternbach. Very unfortunate.
When I see the Series V staff list I see the same Voyager vets.
Given how the staff looks, what are you going to expect from Series V? Another DS9? Or Voyager Lite?
posted
Ah! But see, you're already making assumptions about Enterprise. I'm not. I'll give it a fresh shot and not write it off until then.
As for all the rest of you as well: why so quickly declare you won't watch Enterprise? What will it hurt to tune-in for an episode or two? Who knows -- you might even like it ...
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** Card-Carrying Member of the FlareAPAO *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
You're the one who made assumptions to assume that it will be the best thing since DS9. An unwise assumption since the DS9 creative team no longer works for Trek.
All I see is Voyager on a different time line. That is a far more truthful assumption since you do have the Voyager creative (excuse me for the oxymoron) team doing this.
What's really disturbing is that the recent improvement of Voyager's Season 7 episodes may be due to Executive Producer Ken Biller. Unfortunately, this saving grace, Mr. Biller, does not appear that he's going to stay for Series V.
Let me see, who else from DS9's creative team who isn't there anymore. Oh yeah, Hans Beimler, who also wrote and produced many of the DS9 episodes. Another DS9 supervising producer and writer, Rene Echevarria, has gone on to Dark Angel.
Trek isn't just losing fans---it's bleeding creative talent fast.
Oh but never mind Miller, Taylor, Echevarria, Behr, Beimler, all the DS9 executive and supervising producers who has all gone on to better things. Or that Biller and Sternbach may not be renewed for next season.
But be assured that all those creative latex forehead makeup artists from Voyager are going to stay for Series V.
[This message has been edited by crobato (edited May 13, 2001).]
posted
Of course, considering how everything the former DS9 writers and producers touch turns into such an unwatchable horror it makes the fluid inside your eyes evaporate (Roswell? FutureSport?), not having them onboard might actually be a very good thing indeed. (But probably not.)
No, I'm willing to give Enterprise the benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to not watch it because there was no Enterprise in the background of a TMP scene.
I'll give Enterprise a fair shot. A lot of you here seem intent on shooting it down because (as far as I can tell):
a) You don't think much of Bakula's acting skills
b) There's no DAMN Enterprise in that TMP scene ... !
c) NO VULCANS IN STARFLEET! (N/M the crew of the Intrepid or that T'Pau's a Vulcan officer -- akin to Kira, an officer of the Bajoran military -- and, er, Enterprise is set before Starfleet...)
d) I HATE VOYAGER! SO I'LL HATE ENTERPRISE! BUT I WATCHED VOYAGER RELIGIOUSLY, BUT I HATE ENTERPRISE AND I HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN A SINGLE EPISODE SO I HATE IT ANYWAY AND I STILL WON'T WATCH IT! NYAH!
::sigh::
Give the show a chance, fellas. Don't think for a hot second that the vast majority of people out there give a rat's ass about these big nits. They care more about ... dare I say it? Storytelling.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** Card-Carrying Member of the FlareAPAO *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
That said, the most important differentiator will be the writing staff, and from what we know already the chances of a whole clatter of Voyager writers jumping ship is slim.
------------------ "And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking." -DT on arguing with Omega, April 30
Mr. Tom, Howard did not work for DS9. You can check her BIO in the Star Trek website.
All you have pointed out are a variety of set designers and artists. It only means they can make Series V *look* good, but none of these are writers/producers that made the creative core of DS9. You're talking about icing. I am talking about the cake.
Let's make it very simple. You can't make DS9 anymore. The creative team has gone on---the core five people who is behind the writing, the vision and the producing.
It troubles me more than Sternbach and Biller may be leaving Trek. Biller is the one factor that strengthened Voyager in the last season. In fact the worst seasons of Voyager tend to be the ones with Braga managing it.
Now as for Bakula. I am not belittling his acting. I just don't think he has the "command presence" to be a captain. He is not an infallible guy. He has not really done well outside of Quantum Leap or playing another character beyond a Sam Becket persona.
Let's look at the competition. Andromeda may be the highest rated syndicated show now. It's last few shows demonstrated great improvement in writing and look. Everyone is looking forward for the second season when it's going to get better budget, better writers and higher profile guest stars. Kevin Sorbo's move from Hercules to Dylan Hunt was pretty good. Sorbo has a strong presence, a deep strong voice, and has consistently played a character that is steadfast to principles and ideals. That helped major going from Hercules to Hunt. But Becket/Bakula has a high voice, heheh "sensitive", "boyish" and constantly whines to Dean Stockwell.
I'm not saying people should not give this show a chance. They should. But don't get their hopes up, and don't project your fantasies and ideals into this show. Don't expect highly. The cast list and the leaked pilot have already shown to me a lot of derivation and unoriginality. The fact already that the show is already trying to sell a bit of sex (sexy actress for T'pau) and star brand name, as well as special effects and looks, instead of building a strong creative writing team, is already suggesting to me that this is one glossy show with high production values, but it's not going to have soul, meat, and passion.
posted
Andromeda is, in my admittedly unschooled opinion, absolutely unwatchable. To hold it up as a standard for a Star Trek show to meet is like saying none of P.K. Dick's novels had quite the flavor of Slavegirls Of Gor.
quote:All I see is Voyager on a different time line. That is a far more truthful assumption since you do have the Voyager creative (excuse me for the oxymoron) team doing this.
And above I have shown everyone that with all we know about Enterprise's production staff right now, it isn't piled high with Voyager staff. Admittedly, the most important aspect of a series' creative direction is its writers, but WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE YET. So you're drawing baseless assumptions.
As Sol mentioned above, the DS9 writers, despite their success together, have hardly produced wonders when working solo. (Michael Taylor is writing for Voyager these days, AFAIK.) Writers have on days and off days. Braga, IMHO, is a pretty inconsistent guy, alternately giving us masterpieces and utter shite. But so was Ira Stephen Behr (Profit and Lace, anyone?) and Ronald D Moore (Let He Who Is Without Sin?). Does this mean they can't be entrusted with a new series? You seem to be under the impression that if we brought the DS9 writing staff back together we'd have an instant classic.
All I can draw from your posts, Crobato, is that you consider Brannon Braga to singlehandedly be "The Voyager Creative Team," and his work on Enterprise will condemn the show to be identical to Voyager. And he's not.
------------------ "And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking." -DT on arguing with Omega, April 30
A show's creative direction are from the Producers who do set the guidelines for the writers to work on. In fact the people I mentioned are both producers-writers. They have gone on to better things like Dark Angel and the upcoming Dead Zone, whose previews are now getting quite an aclaim.
I am not saying that we can produce another DS9, but I have grave doubts that Braga-Berman is capable of producing a series equal to the quality of DS9.
And yeah, Braga and Berman seems to be producing a lot of crap these days. I got no confidence that their spots can change. The whole Series V thing has shown me they got no vision at all.
As for Andromeda, it depends on what you watch. I watched only two eps of Andromeda lately. The first one was utter crap, and Dylan fighting a bunch of prisoners in a prison camp make me think "Hercules" once again.
But the second one was an episode where the ship the Andromeda Ascendant met its sister ship, the Pax Magellanic. That one blew me right off the chair. It's been a while even in Trek I have seen an episode like that.
Andromeda is undergoing a learning process, and given a show as new as this with a low budget, it's blazing a trail of surprises.
Lately I have even seen a writer from Andromeda posting in response to a thread about Andromeda in the general SF section of Trekbbs. This shows people who are in close touch and greatly respects the fans, not remoted and isolated in a pearly tower. They look to fandom to see what's wrong and where they can improve.
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Lee: It most definitely was not an AUG - the magazine was a cylinder to the rear of the gun.
I've a pictue at home in an old ST Monthly magazine, but I'm never going back there, so you're just gonna have to trust me on this.
------------------ At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.
"Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"
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