posted
"...develop their recurring characters like TOS (only Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were the stars)"
TOS developed it's recurring characters? When?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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posted
K'Ehlyr in TNG once said that cross-species mating is possible, with a fair bit of medical help (she's half human half klingon, remember?)
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
And there was also Jadzia Dax and Worf in "The Tears of the Prophets." Of course, they didn't actually get to make the baby, but Bashir did find a way around genetic differences to be able to produce a Trill-Klingon hybrid.
There's also been mention of differing placement of sexual organs in TNG's "First Contact." Riker and Lilith get it on despite Riker's warning that there are differences.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
posted
TOS developed it's recurring characters? When?
Back in TOS, only Kirk, Spock, and later McCoy were the stars (they were the only actors in the opening credits). Uhura, Scott, Sulu, Chapel, and so on were only signed on to do a few episodes (not all) just like the recurring characters of DS9. Only later in the movies were they bumped up to "main character" status. I actually think it is better to just list two or three actors as the main character. Then, we don't run into problems like on Voyager where you have too many characters to deal with. There, the writers cheat out by just focusing on the easy to write characters (Seven, the Doctor) instead of the human characters like Kim. After all, it is easier to write about how a holographic doctor tries to fight for equal rights and how a former Borg deals with humanity (i.e. just like Data and Spock) but not how a 24th century "perfect" human deals with life.
This "focus" on only two or three characters in a large ensemble cast has spread to the TNG movies, as well. Now, it's all about Picard and Data. When was the last time we hear of Crusher, LaForge, Troi, etc.? They're just nice set decorations now...
posted
Well, Deanna Troi has developed nicely in the TNG movies. We learned in Generations that she shouldn't be trusted piloting a starship. In First Contact, we learned that she can't hold her liquor and really hates pickup lines from drunken scientists. In Insurrection, we learned that she loves bubble baths and ritually shaving Riker's body hair.
All kidding aside, it's difficult to spend and adequate amount of time on each character in a large-ensemble cast. Most features run two hours long, and that simply isn't enough to do a lot of character development on anyone save one or two people. That's why the TOS movies have always been focused on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and why the TNG movies are always focused on Picard and Data. Those movies focus on the most beloved characters.
The writers on Voyager simply have no excuse for not developing the characters. Some of the fault also goes to Berman, Braga, and Biller for not pushing the writers into exploring the psyche of Chakotay, Kim, and Neelix. Tuvok, Paris, and B'Elanna were treated somewhat better, but Janeway, Seven, and the Doctor hogged all of the character development. There should have been better direction in this regard; the writers simply got lazy.
Developing a large ensemble cast is not too terribly difficult in series television. There are usually twenty to twenty-five episodes in a season, and several episodes can be spent focusing on one particular character. In this regard, TNG and DS9 did fairly well. TNG spent a good deal of time developing Geordi, Troi, and Crusher (only to have them essentially ignored in the movies). DS9 did fairly well giving time to O'Brien, Bashir, Kira, and Odo. Hell, even Rom, Nog, and Morn got their moments in the glory. Jake seemed to get lost in the shuffle quite a bit, though.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
posted
I cant agree more about Voyager , the main reason i thought it was bad was because every single episode was either about The Doctor , or Seven and Janeway.
We missed out on alot of good character eps , By the last season I was hoping they'd rename it to "Star Trek : Three's Company"
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
posted
Ace, La Forge was in "Timeless," which was a fifth season Voyager, the 100th episode. Troi was in "Pathfinder," "Life Line," and "Inside Man," all recent (enough) Voyager episodes. However, the La Forge thing didn't really develop his character any more, other than in that timeline he commanded the USS Challenger.
posted
See! That's even more laziness! They have to bring in other characters from other series instead of focusing on their own characters. I remind you that DS9 (with the exception of Jake) could bring in people from TNG and still develop their own characters well enough.
The Voyager writers just never made the effort to make their other characters deeper than just "Yes, Captain Janewway" and "Red Alert!".
Who do you know more about, O'Brien or Kim? Also, like you wrote, they can't even further develop other characters from other series. At least when DS9 brought Tom Riker over, we learned about how he was having trouble living in the shadow of Will Riker. What about Voyager? Well, Barclay has an obsession with the VOY crew, but how does that change things? He's always been obsessed with things! Troi? I won't even go there, but at least she actually works as a counselor in those episodes.
posted
Any defintion of "recurring character" that includes Uhura, Sulu, and others is, to put it politely, wack. They might not have been the stars, but they were collecting their paycheck every episode. The only recurring character on TOS, which is to say the only character appearing more than once who was not part of the main cast, was Harry Mudd.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: Sol System: I just hope my just made conjecture, re: Harry Mudd being TOS' only recurring character, proves correct. I'm pretty sure it is. None of the three Klingon captains ever did more than one episode. FrankG: Uh...Lt. Kyle? Lt. Riley (I think)? Pike? Sol System: Hey, you're right about Riley. And Kyle, I suppose. Though he was less character than living prop. I don't know if Pike counts. He wasn't exactly living. Don't recurring characters have to, oh, I don't know, move? : ) FrankG: Oh, shush. Sol System: There were also a few extras who appeared multiple times, but it wasn't even clear whether they were really supposed to be the same people or not. FrankG: Such as? Sol System: They didn't have names. There was the guy who threw Charlie X around in the gym, who also played The Guy In Phaser Control, A Security Guard, and The Guy In Engineering.
posted
That could be Galloway (I can't remember if he was an esign or lieutenant). He was seen a few times wandering around, although (amazingly) he had less development that Kyle.
He did top him though, by actually being killed in "The Omeg Glory", and then coming back in season 3! Wow!
There's Dr M'Benga too.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
posted
I have to agree that Voyager's track record on character development isn't as tolerable as TNG and DS9. Maybe that's why no one from the writing staff is going to Enterprise, with the exception of Braga. I just hope that Berman and company learned from the mistakes on Voyager and develope the characters more this time around. If not, I say we petition Bill Gates to take over Star Trek...
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
Registered: May 1999
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