posted
I'm working on another of my little starship history articles. I was wondering if anyone has determined how many starships the Federation lost in the Dominion War. Also any idea what percentage of ships seen on screen were destroyed? Similar figures for the other fleets would also be appreciated.
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Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Ok, Ok. I don't want to open up the "how big is Starfleet" debate. I'd just like to now how many Fed ships did we actually see get blown up on screen? And how many ships can actually be identified? I know these numbers are not representative or precise, I'd just like to get a ballpark figure.
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Um, you can probably get an "at least" number by piecing together informations. If someone can get the number the 7th lost when they tried to stop the Dominion, plus the 2nd Battle for Chintaka, plus the total number of ships involved in the final assault (times 30% loss, IIRC), we'll have a number to start working with. Next we start guessing the average number of ships lost based on the number of people killed on Sisko's weekly casualty report, plus the ones we know for sure, and so on.
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Masao's working on another article? Oh, goody!
Personally, I prefer to take the Large Starfleet view, considering the absolute vastness of space, and how many starships are needed to fill that void. (For instance, in Mark Nguyen's Sector simulations, we've assigned up to ten or twelve ships to a single relatively unimportant sector.)
I explain away the small fleets in TNG by saying (1) there was never enough time to assemble a whole fleet, and (2) Starfleet was at its peak pacifist mode. When you boil the facts down, there's only two comments that suggest the small fleet: Shelby's line that they'd "have the fleet back up in a year," and some comment in "The Wounded" about Starfleet not being at full strength.
Back to the Dominion War...
I would use two figures for the fleet losses: first, the numbers of starships apparently lost during the DS9 battles that we saw, and second, the casualty lists which were occasionally mentioned. Though the Okudagrams may be unreliable given that they weren't intended for close-up view, the characters occasionally mentioned how many casualties Starfleet sustained in a week. (I don't remember exactly, but IIRC they mentioned a few thousand in "AR-558.")
I'd estimate that Starfleet lost on average five ships a week during the "slow" periods of the war, not counting the really big battles (and other, unseen Big Battles -- damn the DS9 writers for not showing more of the war!). If the war lasted for about two years, that would equate an attrition of about 250 ships.
Hmm.
Now that I look at that, that may not be nearly enough. Consider that the Dominion had upwards of 20,000 warships at its disposal in the later parts of the war (the Final Chapter).
Let me go straight to the bottom line, then. I've personally believed the figure of approximately 8,000 starships in the Federation. I'd guess they might have lost approximately 40% of their forces in the two-year war. Given the various comments that were made, that is a large chunk of Starfleet, but still leaves plenty to carry on the fight, even in the last few weeks of the war.
A lot of people disparage the Daystrom Institute Technical Library, but I think it's a great site for various tech discussions -- of course you have to take the info with a grain of salt when you consider canon.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
posted
Still don't much like the DITI, his presention of non-cannon information is too matter-of-fact. It's too easy for someone reading to forget all the "maybe", "probably" and "I think" the text in white represents.
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Shelby's comments can be explained away that she doesn't mean the whole Starfleet, but rather replenishing the strength of a sub-fleet (of which perhaps most of Wolf 359's strike force was made up of).
That's my view, anyway.
I usually take the 'Starfleet has 40,000 ships' view. Frankly, that's not a whole heck of a lot to cover the member worlds, colonies, starbases, exploration missions, humanitarian missions, and wherever else.
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: I usually take the 'Starfleet has 40,000 ships' view. Frankly, that's not a whole heck of a lot to cover the member worlds, colonies, starbases, exploration missions, humanitarian missions, and wherever else.
40,000!!!! (Faint!) Bloody hell! That's a lot of ships! . . . . but not unreasonable except - how do you explain that it would take Starfleet 3 weeks to get Picard a needed ship to help with the Sheliak (not sure on spelling - don't care either! ) situation? And don't say that it was a long way away!!!
-------------------- If you cant convince them, confuse them.
posted
But if you keep in mind that Starfleet probably has thousands of runabouts, fighter craft, couriers, transports, and other such small craft with their own names & registry numbers, then the 40,000 ship count doesn't seem so far-fetched.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Starfleet was looking for a specific transport in that case, I believe. None of the ships available for Picard were of that type before 3 weeks.
Fighters? Uh, not in the 'Star Wars' sense. 'Star Trek' Universe fighters have always - to me - seemed to be small mobile starships with a significant crew: the Defiant, Klingon birds-of-prey, Jem-Hadarr strike ships ...
[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
posted
By "fighters" I was referring to the small one-man ships first seen as Maquis vessels, but later used regularly by Starfleet in the war (and the one TPTB made into a ridiculously huge alien ship for VOY).
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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) situation? And don't say that it was a long way away!!! 
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