posted
Well, as far as this thread is concerned, it'd actually be quite helpful knowing for sure what the Intrepid rego is. Can someone with the DVD please make a clear cap? I personally would like to see this Intrepid issue resolved.
posted
Regardless of whether we get a canonical 1831 in the TOS era, I doubt it will help clarify whether post-1800 ships looked like TOS designs or TMP ones.
After all, TMP had all those canonical verbal references to FJ ships. And there was a 2120 there, before the 1701-refit was even launched. We have no canon proof of what that ship looked like, of course, but the mere existence of that registry in that timeframe either
1) undermines any "NCC greater than 1800 means TMP-style nacelles and other design" connection (if we assume the dreadnought was TOS style) or
2) lets that connection stand (if we assume the dreadnought was TMP style), in which case there were TMP-style nacelles and design features in existence *before* the launch of the 1701-refit.
Either way, pre-TMP Mirandas become a strong possibility, and we can argue they were TOS-like or already TMP-like with equal vehemence.
posted
The general dirth of Constitutions in the TNG and pre-TNG era suggests that they weren't building new ones for much longer after TMP. On the other hand, there are lots of other ship classes that we know exist but don't get to see often, if at all, just because.
Personally, I think we can explain the disappearance of the Constitution and the longevity of the Miranda by contrasting their typical mission profiles. The first twelve Constitutions were the best of the best, but they were also doing the most dangerous jobs. It seems possible that some of the praise heaped upon Kirk and company was due simply to their having survived.
We see elsewhere that the "Explorer" role is a risky one. How many Galaxies, pride of the fleet, have been lost?
So I would suspect that the Constitution class went out, did lots of neat stuff that was really hard on the ships, came back, got refitted, but then found their old jobs replaced by the new Excelsior class. Meanwhile, the Miranda, which seems like it would make a nice fighting ship, found itself without any wars to fight, post-Khitomer (for awhile). And being somewhat less capable in the gosh-wow deep space department, they were held back for more routine missions.
Of course, there are lots of Excelsiors around. Lots and lots of Excelsiors. If they were frontline starships, why are so many left? Well, it seems to me, first of all, that there was a varient of the Excelsior class (Enterprise B) that could very well have been intended as the explorer flavor, and there aren't very many of those around, fitting with the idea of high attrition for such ships. And, not many decades later, the Ambassador was introduced, an even more impressive explorer, freeing up even more Excelsiors from dangerous deep space assignments. And so on.
I expect I'm rambling a bit.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
No, you make the sense. I've always said that the reason we dont' see the Ambassador, or any other big explorers for that matter, was for the simple fact that they were out there *exploring*. When they're all way out there, you don't see 'em anywhere near any other explorers like the E-D.
posted
On that same vein, I suspect a prominent ship design has a certain succession of "stages" in her life.
First, such a ship is built to be the biggest, fastest and baddest there is. She's sent to spearhead any UFP effort, be it in exploration or politics or blasting apart the bad guys.
Then something slightly more flashy comes out of the ASDB, and our ship loses the prominent role in politics. She becomes a mainstream explorer and defender. The new hero ship can still meet her in deep space by happenstance.
As time passes and the Federation expands, the performance of our ship becomes insufficient to take her to the depths of unexplored space. She gets relegated to a defence role, closer to home. The new hero ship can meet her in such a role.
Finally, all that is left for the old workhorse is a posting as a starbase defender that doesn't engage warp much, or a garbage scow, or something. The new hero ship won't touch that wreck with a tractor beam.
I suspect that the Constitutions were in stage two in the early 24th century, stage three just before TNG, but in stage four already when "Encounter at Farpoint" showed us the state of the art of the late 24th century fleet. The succession would be a bit slower for ships that were never intended to operate in the extreme frontlines, which would include the Mirandas.
The Excelsiors in TNG are in stage two, moving to stage three - there are still some exploring examples, but most only have a defensive, intra-Federation role now. In contrast, the TNG design style vessels are still very much into stage one, so they are all in deep space, and only deep space heroes can meet them. (Deep Space Nine heroes cannot, since they are not in deep space. They only get to see the warhorses of stage three.)
posted
My opinion of the Constitution Class was that all the vessels still in active service were refitted to refit specs except one since Captain Picard said there was one in the fleet muscem. I also think that Starfleet might have constructed one or two new ones as well.
Although it has never been officially confirmed I believed that in 2285 with the believe that the Excelsior Class project was going to be a success the constitution class was destined to be replaced. With the failure of the transwarp drive i believe that the life of the constitution class refit continued until the end of the century. If a vessel was badly damaged it was scrapped or until it reached the end of its operational life. Personally i don't think there was any left by 2367 even though we saw the engineering hull of one at Wolf 359.
About the U.S.S. Enterprise-A being an new ship. Previous ships had deck numbers using letters but this one had numbers. I know that the Enterprise cannot have more than 24 decks but if it was an old ship it must have taken a big effort to renumber all its decks. I still think that it was the yorktown and not the atlantis or the ti-ho.
-------------------- "We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy
posted
And what of the U.S.S. Olympia (or what the name was) from "The Sound of Her Voice"? The wreckage was another reuse of the ST3 Enterprise wreck.
Can we assume that Starfleet sent out an 80 year old ship on an 8-year exploration mission!?
posted
Depends on what the Olympia was exploring. Not "deep space" in the sense that it would have been awfully far away from Earth - after all, the Defiant picked up the SOS and reached the site pretty rapidly, despite being tasked with escorting a convoy of transports. Such a convoy would have no business being farther out than DS9 from the Federation heartland, especially in wartime.
So perhaps the Olympia was exploring an area between Bajor and Earth. Easily within reach by elderly ships, but politically a bit risky in the early 2360s.
The writers probably don't think on these terms, but in the Trek reality the exploration ships have to be far faster and more capable than the warships. Speed means range, at least in space. It never meant range on Earth's oceans, because all ships were pretty much equally slow yet never loitered far away from the coasts - even the Pacific isn't big enough to make a fast clipper a better explorer than a slow collier. And a fast steamship was the poorest choice of all for exploration, because of fuel exhaustion. In space, a slow ship would spend a far greater proportion of exploration time just getting there, sailing through uninteresting empty space or passing explored planets. And fuel exhaustion doesn't seem to be an issue.
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posted
Keeping in mind that, if you like chronological registries, 1701 was used in 2245... so the 2250s and 60s could theoretically have seen a lot of increase over it, up to the 2120 (and counting on the fact that the Excelsior project probably had been in the works for a long time, and that its NCC was way behind the times by its 2285 commissioning) (BTW thats what i think happened to the Prometheus too)
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
The wreck of the Olympia was represented by the blown-up saucer and nacelle of the NCC-1701 from ST3. Same parts were seen in the Wolf 359 graveyard. (Along with a secondary hull.)
That being the case, I kind of always thought she should be a Connie, I started a thread about it a ways back, but nobody seemed to like the idea...
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