posted
I've been keeping quiet so far, but after Shik's wonderful commentary, I think it's time that someone spoke up.
If the question of whether it's right to distribute these photos or not is what's holding things up, then why the hell did SOME people get to see them already? They've already been distributed, then.
I see some serious hypocrisy here...
I mean really, what's the point of bragging "hey look I've got these pictures, let me describe them... oh, but you can't have a look because you're not on our elite list"? I think it's quite rude.
Please note that I'm not whining because I haven't seen the pictures -- I'm curious, but not desperate. I'm just pissed off at the attitude here, and the contradictory premise that they can distribute the photos to their elitist friends, but not to everyone else. As if there's any difference as far as Drexler is concerned.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Completely agreed here. My patience for people treating Treknology discussion like immunology research has eroded incredibly rapidly over the past year.
I mean, seriously. Stop, and take a look at yourselves. Can we stop taking everything so seriously? Can we stop forming "research groups" and embarking upon round after round of snotty cliquey back-slapping for working together to solve the intricate mysteries of kitbashes like you were curing bloody cancer? Likewise, can we stop crawling up to these people and crying like little babies that we need to see these pictures now-now-now or else?
Having this place show a little maturity and rise above a fanboy circle-jerk takes two things. Firstly, like Shik said, is to stop getting our panties in such a twist over not seeing photos. But secondly, can we start treating this like it was, well, I dunno, fun? And between friends? And not enormously important to the Earth's rotation about the sun? Our "research-group" strikes me as being just as guilty as this as the hordes of brownnosers crawling about their feet begging for a look-in.
Instead of passing around photos clearly intended to be seen by anybody to whoever can suck up the most, can we just smile and laugh and concede that's irrelevant if you or me or Bernd of the Russian Secret Service see them? Instead of worrying about incorportating ships we didn't know existed after watching the episode fifty bazillion times into canon and proceeding to scream and yell and curse at one another, can we just inject a little bit of Timoism into the whole affair and at least acknowledge that it is a frickin' TV show with real-world variables that are invariably going to make rationalizing everything an exercise in silliness?
So, listen up guys:
Post the frickin' pictures. Ask that they not be distributed if you wish. Put big ugly copywrite notices across them. Whatever.
I'll look at them for five minutes, and if inspiration strikes me to write a comment or two, then I will. I won't use them to build a thermonuclear bomb. I won't suddenly stop respecting the illustrious Corps of PhD. Starshipologists who spend a week after getting concrete proof still arguing if a saucer was elliptical or not.
And if you don't want to post them, and would rather listen to the plaintiff whining mews of those who will lose their erection if they don't see them within 48 hours, then do so as well.
Either way, somewhere right now in the real world someone will be born, someone will get their first kiss, someone will get married, and someone will die.
I don't really care that pictures of these ships exist. I do care that there are too many sticks up too many asses and that its making this place a less-enjoyable place to be.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
Member # 742
posted
^^^^
Amen. I agree 100%.
-------------------- "This is great. Usually it's just cardboard walls in a garage."
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
What, was Dukhat killed or something? Did a bomb suddenly blow up when he booted up his computer? If you are out there, Dukhat, can you at least respond to our incessive whining?
posted
Amazing. I finally get round to catching up on this thread, and as I read it I get angrier and angrier. But then finally someone speaks up (and, in fact, in far worse terms than even I would have used). Shikky, I can state with full confidence that you are The Man. 8)
I mean, seriously, haven't you lot ever heard of something called Email? You're all so full of how wonderful your poxy little ASDB websites are, set up your own fucking forum where you can amuse yourself in a mutual-masturbatory orgy of nediness.
You really should all be fucking ashamed of yourselves.
posted
You know, I'm thoroughly disgusted with some of you people.
If you all must really know, I actually HAVE been on vacation. I left Maryland Saturday with my girlfriend, & flew to Florida to see my parents. The last thing on my mind was these damn pictures. You see, I have a life beyond this forum, & I haven't even had a chance to get online until just now. However, I thought I'd be a nice guy & take the pics on a floppy disk to Florida so that if Drexler did reply to me with his permission, I'd be able to email the pics to everyone who was interested from my dad's computer via webmail.
So what do I find here once I log on? A bunch of impatient ingrates. I mean, I'm going to be in Florida for a week. What if my father didn't have internet access? By the time I returned home, would you guys be at the point where you're actually calling me an asshole or a jerk, or "rude" for sharing the pics with Bernd & Timo and not anyone else? And all of this, just because I decided to take the initiative & contact Drexler ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE AT FLARE, and just wanted to do the right thing & get his permission.
Well you know what? I DID get a reply from Drexler. And he DID say that I could distribute the pics to everyone here, as long as everyone keeps his name out of it in case Paramount happens to see the pics & wants to know where they came from.
As far as I'm concerned, some of you don't deserve to see shit. But that was never my choice, it was Drexler's. And since he's given his OK, I will email the pics to whoever wants them. But I think I deserve an apology.
PM me with your email address, or if you still have some semblance of patience, wait until Bernd posts links.
Mark
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I dislike the tone in this thread lately. The reason why pics are not posted here is not because an elite wants to keep their knowledge and glory for themselves, but because there was some sort of an agreement with Doug Drexler. I don't know what exactly Mark/Dukhat has been negotiating with him, but until he does not have the explicit permission please respect that nothing will be posted here where it is available for everyone who drops in. No matter if with or without a copyright notice, there may be stuff that just isn't meant for the public (yet), and that certain people at Paramount may not like to be published. Having received some information by Doug myself, I know that it isn't always that easy, even if it's only some old starships. It should be in our interest and most of all in the interest of the person who provides pics or inormation that they are treated confidentially. Doug was very forthcoming (again), and we shouldn't disappoint him by spreading everything through the web.
Mark happened to be the first to receive the photos, and he provided them to a few people he knew he could trust - not some self-declared group of fans who want all the glory. Minutiaeman, The_Tom, Kyle Amasov: It's not that you wouldn't fall in the category of persons to be trusted too. But this is just not the place to publish them ATM.
I don't know. Mark may have reasons to stay offline or to keep the rest of the images for himself. I think there is not the slightest reason to complain about a few days of delay. Be patient. It has taken four years or so to finally dig up these obscure ships, and a few more days won't hurt. And another thing I want to make clear is that this is all a common project. Mark let all of you be a part of it since he began this thread. I don't understand all these reproaches, considering that he could have kept everything secret until it was finally published at EAS or somewhere else.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Mark, you do make a good point there -- you ARE the one who took the initiative. I had no intention of insulting you because of that.
I have no problem with the fact that you were waiting for confirmation from Mr. Drexler before posting these photos on the board. I've seen the lengths that Bernd went to with pics such as the Cheyenne/Springfield one.
The ONLY point that I was upset about was that these photos were apparently still distributed while you claimed to be waiting for permission to distribute them -- and that no secret was made of this on the board. If you were going to post textual descriptions yourself, that would have been fine as a sneak-peek before you got confirmation from Mr. Drexler. But no, we got the details from other people. And despite the fact that I'm willing to wait for them, there's still a little voice that says "why can't I see them now?"
This is supposed to be a friendly board to discuss and share opinions about "Star Trek." But the fact that some people were openly sharing material with certain others -- but not all -- seemed to me to be rather unfair and impolite.
Okay, so this whole thing definitely got overblown. I apologize for any insult I may have caused. But I don't believe that invalidates my concern.
Dan
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Absolutely it doesn't invalidate your concerns. As long as this was some private fanboy jerk-off session over these photos, the discussion should have been kept private. Bernd is OK, but the rest of you are just wankers, really. And now we're expected to feel all guilty and repentant, I gather. Tough.
Aw, look. The old "I do have a life outside these Forums" line. Funny how that gets trotted out whenever the more obviously geeky ones here feel even slightly insulted. Never mind that at no time is there any evidence of said life. Instead it's "There's no evidence the Horizon was a Daedalus!" "I do have a life outside these Forums, you know." "You made a spelling mistake in that post!" "I do have a life outside these Forums, you know." Comical. 8)
posted
I apologize for any remarks I may have made about Dukhat. I was impatient and wanted to see some stupid pictures of ships that appeared as obscure white blobs in the background of some Star Trek episode. I should stick to my friend's advice and not care kitbashed freak-ship. (No, this is not a suck-up attempt to get the pictures posted so I can see them.)
[ March 11, 2002, 18:40: Message edited by: Veers ]
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