quote:I keep hearing about the Constitution variants seen in STIV, but I've never seen them. Anyone got any pics?
There weren't any Constitution variants in STIV. When Kirk & Co. take the travelpod ride through Spacedock, they first fly over a Constitution-type nacelle. Only the top of this nacelle can be seen. Then, in the very next scene, you see the end of another Connie-type nacelle on the viewscreen. That's it. That's all you see. For all we know, those nacelles are attached to another class of ship entirely. (Of course, the reason why everyone says that they're Connies is because the Connie model was the one most likely used for these shots. But that doesn't preclude that in the "real" Trek universe, they weren't another type of ship. Since you never see the actual ship they're attached to, you can believe whatever you want.)
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Registered: Jun 2000
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Yes, true enough. And it would be nice to think these were separate classes entirely...
Psy- what about the Connie variant model in Brahms' lab in 'Booby Trap'? This doesn't necessarily mean it was a real class of ship that went into production, but this is on some level canon - this design, as a model appeared on screen.
Dat- I only called the Yeager and Elkins Intrepid variants because I have no better term to use. They are obviously kitbash variants, based around the superstructure of an Intrepid. This is why they're generally known as Intrepid variants, there's no other collective noun to describe them.
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quote:Originally posted by The Red Admiral: (I'm saying here that the Yorktown was refitted as the Yorktown, and was only later, at the last moment renamed Enterprise-A)
Right, that's what I was trying to say. Just didn't explicitly say that the Yorktown was first refit around the time of TMP, and then only renamed in TVH.
Part of the whole point of a starship in service is that it receives important refits and upgrades during its service life. So small variations of ships can't really be considered major separations in classification.
The Excelsior -- First, the NX-2000 was nothing more than a prototype. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that certain features could be refitted before the class went into full production. That's not a class variant.
The Lakota -- Plenty of naval ships and probably starships have received special weapons upgrades. The Lakota's might have been more extensive, but that doesn't classify it as a variant, IMO.
The Nebulas -- The Honshu/Phoenix/Sutherland versions are all the same, except for the mission pod and a couple of other minor details. There's nothing to really set it apart. Even the Phoenix had nothing different aside from the pod and supports -- and that's simple enough to change. (As for the other versions, well, I don't care much, since those were in the background. That's getting into the realm of "anal-retentive," IMO. No offense, guys. Y'all argue about it if you want. I just don't want to get into that part. )
The Mirandas -- We saw two variations here -- first was the Lantree, which makes perfect sense for a ship that was refitted as a transport. An old, slow transport wouldn't need the extra weight of the torpedo module and pulse phaser cannons, especially in the mostly-peaceful pre-TNG era. As for the Saratoga, well, I really don't know. It might have been a once-off refit attempt, or some kind of specialized AWACS design. But the overall design of the ship was never changed, and so it should still be considered the same class.
You've got to consider here that we have ONE quasi-official instance of two class names for apparently very minor design changes (Saladin/Hermes), and a small assortment of useless non-canon names, like Bonhomme Richard, which IMO are complete crap.
On the other hand, we have long-term and consistent designations of class based on the general layout and outfit specifications, rather than the nitty-gritty details.
Here's an example -- the Enterprise-D received brand-new warp core in "Phantasms." Does that mean that there's a new "Enterprise Subclass" of the Galaxy Class because the ENT got a specialized upgrade? No!
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Registered: Nov 2000
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Can't we all forget about TFF? The only thing good about that movie was the bridge IMO.
Lakota: The Lakota was most likely either a regular Excelsior class or the E-B varient. In either case it could be true. Simple reasoning is that the E-B with all those extra equipment could have been added there after finding out for some reason that the Excelsior design has some flaws/weaknesses. Then newer ships with newer technology ironed that out so the E-B vairent design is no longer needed. Then the Lakota with her massive weapons refit, to make the ship more durable added those features. On the other hand, all if could have been is a weapons refit. Which is far more easier to do than to do what I suggested above.
Throughout naval history, naval powers always refitted, swapped, replaced, and gutted out their ships for new weapons, equipment, armor, and so on. Wooden ships would be cut down, plated over with iron plates to become some sort of ironclad. WWI rea ships would be gutted out, hulls extended, machinery replaced, to make the ship equal or more efficient than before. When these refits are done, normally their classes remain the same. Look at the Tennessee, New Mexico, and Colorado classes. Each ship is different from their sisters. Would that make them a different class? No.
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Registered: Jul 2000
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I won't because I liked the movie. Had a lot of remarkable scenes and quotes.
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Registered: Mar 2000
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I understand and concur with just everything that's been said.
I stated at the beginning that it seemed as though there was a possibility that the Starfleet classing system was changed - so that minor, or even major refit operations didn't warrant sub-class classifications any more. Because to me, with this current 24th century system, which I certainly favour, is at odds with what has gone before, ie Saladin/Hermes, and to some extent Miranda/Soyuz.
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
Psy- what about the Connie variant model in Brahms' lab in 'Booby Trap'? This doesn't necessarily mean it was a real class of ship that went into production, but this is on some level canon - this design, as a model appeared on screen.
I haven't seen "Booby Trap" for a while (which I'm quite thankful for, actually), but I really, really, really hope you're not talking about the AMT Enterprise-A model with the engines stuck on backwards. Because that would just be too stupid to contemplate.
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Registered: Mar 1999
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Let's not forget the Yellowstone-class runabout, which doesn't look very different from the Danube-class runabout. (While some of the events in the episode that featured it were not "real", they *were* realistic with respect to the "real" Star Trek universe. We must not ignore this distinction.)
In general, the realities of Star Trek production call for models to be reused against the wishes of writers who like to dream up new classes. This requires a system where minor differences are sufficient to change a ship's class. Another example are B'rel and K'vort birds-of-prey, which appear to be identical on the outside, or the D-12 and contemporary birds-of-prey, which also appear to be identical.
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