posted
The point is, it did. Stroking the jaw was the usual Kirk reaction to the impending doom of the universe.
Moreover, it caused Chekov a coronary, too. He had already overheard Kirk speculating that the Enterprise might not be welcomed to Genesis by resident Starfleet forces. The presence of a ship should have been no surprise to him. The curious behavior (being visible only for "an instant") explains part of the amazement in Chekov's voice, but I'd still read into it the surprise that the ship would be scout class instead of being the expected Grissom.
quote:Originally posted by Timo: I'd say that ST3 is good evidence that the Grissom *wasn't* a scout-class vessel. Chekov says he sees a scout. Kirk's response is one of *doubt* and *concern*!
I got the impression that the Grissom could in certain special conditions be *mistaken* for a scout class vessel, which Kirk thought might have happened. But he said that only to placate the crew - secretly, he was concerned that if there really was a scout class vessel out there, then he was leading his friends into some sort of unscheduled trouble.
As for my two cents:
quote: 150
CHEKOV Sir, Starfleet calling Grissom again. A warning about us.
KIRK Response?
CHEKOV (a beat) Nothing. As before.
KIRK What's Grissom up to?... Will they join us, or fire on us...? (thinks) Chekov, break radio silence. Send my compliments to Captain Esteban.
At the science station, the blue light of the scanner flickering on his face.
CHEKOV I'd swear something was there sir, but I might have imagined it.
KIRK What did you see, Chekov?
CHEKOV For an instant... A scout class vessel.
KIRK (thoughtfully) Could be Grissom. (then) Patch in the hailing frequency. (at Chekov's nod) U.S.S. Grissom, this is Enterprise calling. Come in, please.
I think "doubt" or "concern" is a bit extreme... I believe, based on the first quote, Kirk was still wondering whose side the Grissom was on. If, indeed, that was the Grissom, as they established from sensor contact something resembling Grissom was in orbit, they were attempting to hail her again, curious on her allegiance....
...also if you really want to be anal...the script identified the Grissom as: A mid-sized Federation Science Vessel..., and the Klingons identified the Enterprise (in Klingon terms) as a "Federation Battle Cruiser".
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: ...also if you really want to be anal...the script identified the Grissom as: A mid-sized Federation Science Vessel..., and the Klingons identified the Enterprise (in Klingon terms) as a "Federation Battle Cruiser".
Incidentally, that's what Duras identified Enterprise NX-01 as in "Judgement" (although without the "Federation" bit, obviously). Perhaps for the Klingons, Federation "Starships" or "Heavy Cruisers" are "Battle Cruisers" (they do like fighting, after all).
Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
quote: Phoenix Perhaps for the Klingons, Federation "Starships" or "Heavy Cruisers" are "Battle Cruisers" (they do like fighting, after all).
The Kronos One was identified as a "Klingon Battle Cruiser" by the Computer/PA on ST6, so maybe it's mutual, or maybe it's just a general classification interchangable with "Heavy Cruiser"...as that is what the Enterprise, Enterprise-A, and Enterprise-C were recognized as by Starfleet.
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
quote: Phoenix Perhaps for the Klingons, Federation "Starships" or "Heavy Cruisers" are "Battle Cruisers" (they do like fighting, after all).
The Kronos One was identified as a "Klingon Battle Cruiser" by the Computer/PA on ST6, so maybe it's mutual, or maybe it's just a general classification interchangable with "Heavy Cruiser"...as that is what the Enterprise, Enterprise-A, and Enterprise-C were recognized as by Starfleet.
TNG Angel One mentions Romulan Battle Cruisers (presumbly Warbirds)
TNG The Arsenal of Freedom calls the USS Drake (possibly a Wambundu Class) a Light Cruiser.
TNG Peak Performance calls the USS Hathaway a Star Cruiser (although I don't think this is a SF person talking).
TNG Conspiracy calls the Ambassador Class USS Horatio a Heavy Cruiser, and the USS Renegade and USS Thomas Paine (the former possibly a New Orleans Class, the latter definately one) Frigates.
The TNP script calls the Klingon ships (D-7s I presume) Heavy Cruisers, and the dialogue calls them Cruisers.
The Klingon ships in TWOK are called Cruisers.
The USS Enterprise is called a Battle Cruiser, and the USS Grissom/Klingom BOP a Scout in TSFS.
As you mentioned, Kronos One is called a Battle Cruiser in TUC.
The Enterprise is called a Battle Cruiser in ENT Judgement.
Thus it would seem we have, in descending order of power:
Battle Cruiser Heavy Cruiser (Medium Cruiser perhaps?) Light Cruiser Frigate (Destroyer?) Escort Scout (not sure of the last two's order)
I'm not sure about the canonicity of Dreadnought - perhaps someone could clarify this?
Perhaps they have some more classes (the Prometheus or Sovereign may be Battleships, for instance)
Edit: I think I should point out that a large part of this is from Spike's website.
Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Timo: I'd say that ST3 is good evidence that the Grissom *wasn't* a scout-class vessel. Chekov says he sees a scout. Kirk's response is one of *doubt* and *concern*!
I got the impression that the Grissom could in certain special conditions be *mistaken* for a scout class vessel, which Kirk thought might have happened. But he said that only to placate the crew - secretly, he was concerned that if there really was a scout class vessel out there, then he was leading his friends into some sort of unscheduled trouble.
With all due respect, I think that you're seroiusly reaching for this answer on this one, Timo. I was not at all left w/any impression of Kirk being concerned beyond not knowing if he'd have to fire on a Federation ship or not. That's it. He already knew that Grissom was there, right?
As "Futurama Guy" pointed out w/the exact text from the movie, Kirk knew that Grissom was expected to be there. Any "doubt" he had would have likely only been directed at wondering if Enterprise's sensor systems were having problems or if Grissom were trying to "hide" in a sensor blind spot of some sort - possibly a naturally occuring phenomenon.
quote: As for "USS", I'm sure Starfleet is full of people who *don't really know* what the thing means. The Fleet must have its share of people who'd misplace Deneva on the stellar charts, or think that Maazarites are the guys with lots of fur, and still are competent enough to serve as top officers. The deeper meaning of "USS" isn't likely to be a top topic to be taught in any of the Academy lectures, really.
And I'd wager that you're wrong here, too. I've got one family member and two friends who've been thru the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland here in The States. Core classes there, as in all branchs of the United States Armed Forces, get pretty in-depth about the history and traditions of the service. Heck, in the USAF, we received the equivalent of 6 college credit hours worth of history, tradition and customs & courtesy's for our Service.
While it's entirely possible to have "less than competent" officers in a service (trust me, I've seen plenty in the USAF!), I doubt most of them would ever be in a position to do any "harm" to the ship. We also see very few "enlisted" crewmen who aren't pretty darned proficient in at least their direct duties. Being as enlisted folks tend to be more along the lines of "specialists", I'm willing to bet that they're not nearly as "dense" in the Trek universe as most would thinkg. Also, consider that there is a Darwinian Process hard at work which eliminate's this in the Real World - called performance reports. Having not yet seen an incompetent officer beyond Captain Esteban's utter shock at encountering a BoP in Federation space and failing to raise his shields immediately, I'm willing to bet that most officers in Star Trek are highly competent and capable of giving disertations on the history of Star Fleet.
I won't argue the rest, as I feel it's fully conjecture on everyone else's part. There is nothing which 100% supports there not being a "Starship Class", much as I disagree with it. It's just silly think that there really was a "U.S.S. Starship", lead ship in her class....
Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
As for "USS", I'm sure Starfleet is full of people who *don't really know* what the thing means. The Fleet must have its share of people who'd misplace Deneva on the stellar charts, or think that Maazarites are the guys with lots of fur, and still are competent enough to serve as top officers. The deeper meaning of "USS" isn't likely to be a top topic to be taught in any of the Academy lectures, really.
I dunno. I'd doubt that there's many people serving in the royal navy who don't know what "HMS" stands for.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
...or even outside the Navy. I mean, it's not exactly quantum physics, is it?
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
IIRC, the TMP comm chatter explicitly said "Dreadnought Entente".
And I do believe "Battle Cruiser" is mostly a Klingon thing. In ENT Judgment, Duras only used that term for dramatic purpose. Being a tough warrior, would you claim to be attacked by a wimpy Warp 5 explorer before the High Court?
posted
The designations of vessels change from speaker to speaker in the real world as well. Prior to WWII, it was fashionable to declare certain battleships (of older or smaller designs) to be "mere" battlecruisers, whereas after the beginning of the war, navies suddenly had battleships where battlecruisers had previously floated.
I gather "starship" could have been intended as the TOS equivalent of "battleship". All warships do battle, but only the very biggest are called battleships. And all warpships go to the stars, but only the biggest are called starships.
posted
As the Enterprise identified Kronos One as a Battle Cruiser, it would seem to be a SF term as well (you wouldn't identify an alien ship as a type that doesn't exist in your nomenclature).
Federation Class seems to be more powerful than Constitution/Enterprise Class, so I assume Dreadnought is more powerful than Battle Cruiser.
The Prometheus is a pure warship, whereas the Battle Cruisers we have seen (Connies) are all multi-purpose ships - perhaps that is the difference between Battle and Tactical Cruisers. Although, as the Prometheus destroyed a Romulan Battle Cruiser (Warbird) in MIAB, I suspect it may be more powerful than a BC. Perhaps TC is a replacement for Dreadnought? If so, I would expect the Sovereign to be a TC, the Galaxy and Nebula with weapons pod BCs, the Nebula with science pod a Heavy Cruiser, the Intrepid perhaps a Medium Cruiser.
Long-Range is clearly just an addition (Voyager is probably a Long-Range Medium Cruiser, or something similar).
quote:Originally posted by Cartmaniac: Defiant-class crews would disagree with you there, I should think.
I don't think that the Defiant Class is really the best example of an escort. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Defiant was "officially" classed as an Escort, but wasn't really one - Starfleet lacking a proper term to classify a ship with very strong weapons yet very small. Perhaps the term Tactical Cruiser was invented partly for this reason, to classify a largish ship with very strong weapons, as I suspect Dreadnoughts became obsolete after the peace with the Klingons in TUC.
Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
Or then "long range tactical cruiser" is your typical manufacturer nonsense, and the ship in actual practice will be known as a run-of-the-mill "light cruiser".
It's an old marketing trick to invent flashy new names for things that in practice fall neatly into existing niches. From what we saw of the Prometheus, she could simply be the next Intrepid with one fancy extra feature (for which the user might never figure a good use). "Warship", my ass. She has fewer phaser strips than the Intrepid (or the Nova!), and no visible torpedo launchers. She's probably still half-finished anyway.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
