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I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
even though it is just as unlikely as any, that Excelsior theory is preferable to the Miranda theory in many ways.
Registered: Sep 2001
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Except that there was only ONE Excelsior-class vessel at this point---the prototype NX-2000 herself. But let's not start THAT debate again...
The Intrepid's class is unknown, though it is likely either the Miranda or one of the two Connies seen in SpaceDock during the course of the film.
Spikey's speculation that it is the Miranda, based upon the order of shots in the film compared to the scripted sequences, is actually quite sensical. However it is impossible to substantiate, especially considering that the Miranda model was not relabeled as anything but the Saratoga for the film. And personally, (though this is completely irrelevent to the debate as it is just my "feeling") I would balk at the idea of a Miranda-class Intrepid and would rather believe that she was a Connie built as a replacement for the one destroyed in "The Immunity Syndrome" (TOS).
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Except that there was only ONE Excelsior-class vessel at this point---the prototype NX-2000 herself. But let's not start THAT debate again...
Not confirmed on-screen either way, is it? Possiblity exists, tho.
quote:The Intrepid's class is unknown, though it is likely either the Miranda or one of the two Connies seen in SpaceDock during the course of the film.
I'm open to anything at this point. Especially not having access to the DE (or was it an SE?) DVD nor the shooting script.
quote:Spikey's speculation that it is the Miranda, based upon the order of shots in the film compared to the scripted sequences, is actually quite sensical. However it is impossible to substantiate, especially considering that the Miranda model was not relabeled as anything but the Saratoga for the film.
Curious to know your source for this. While I find it the most likely event, I'd like to know if this was confirmed or speculation on your part.
quote: And personally, (though this is completely irrelevent to the debate as it is just my "feeling") I would balk at the idea of a Miranda-class Intrepid and would rather believe that she was a Connie built as a replacement for the one destroyed in "The Immunity Syndrome" (TOS).
Again, I have no problem w/that thinking.
Something which just occured to me, tho: do we have a registry number to go w/this mention of Intrepid in the Spacedock pics from the previous page? Or perhaps from the Operation: Retrieve chart? I've searched two of the threads here on Flare and don't find one that matches up for a refit, just the TOS registry we've been given in the past....
Registered: Apr 2003
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Well I didnt point it at first, but the Excelsior is also in the above caps as well...so really you have the Excelsior on the left and Intrepid on the right; and for the dudes in the control booth the Excelsior on their front-right and the Intrepid on their left.
As far as demoting the Intrepid...I dont that is even an option. Just because the Enterprise seemed to step up each model doesnt mean that that is the norm. The Enterprise has always been an exception and shouldn't be compared.
When there was (supposed) mention of two ships and then you see two ships immediately (the next scene) thereafter...it seems to be more than mere coincidence. There were no Connies in the movie until after the trial which would have been many hours or even days after the probes incursion.
And Mighty Monkey, not to pick on you specifically, but your shiplist does have the Excelsior-Farragut on it and that evidence is just as circumstantial, if not more, than this evidence.
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Thanks, Futurama Guy! You DaBomb! Appreciate the Hell outta ya for those screen grabs. I recall the two which show what has got to be a Refit Connie's nacelle and had deduced that they were two separate ships. However, I've never seen them from the WideScreen DVD's perspective. Pretty kewel.
Now, if we could just find the registry for that ship (Intrepid or not!)....
BTW, I had posted a request for information at the TrekBBS' TrekTech Forum. Rick Sternbach frequents there and I thought perhaps he might have some inside info on the Operation: Retrieve chart. Alas, he does not, having not worked on ST:VI.
Registered: Apr 2003
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Its a wonder how they got the Enterprise out of spacedock from the back of the dock without getting its hair tangled in the mishmash of nacelles and saucers...
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a Miranda-class U.S.S. Intrepid. I don't agree that its a demotion going from a Constitution-class to a Miranda-class. Although I haven't calculated the total square footage, it appears that the Miranda-class has the same internal volume as the refit Constitution-class and it probably has more hangar space, although this cannot be confirmed.
The Reliant also gave the Enterprise a good thrashing, so the two vessels are similar in combat capabilities. Would an experienced starship captain have defeated Kirk in the opening exchange? And who can say that the vessel is under-armed with the two forward-facing pulse phaser cannons and an extra two photo torpedo tubes.
Certainly there were enough intervening years to have a Miranda-class Intrepid and then have an Excelsior-class Intrepid NCC-38907 as her replacement and then have the lead ship of the Intrepid-class. Which isn't a demotion either because the Intrepid is one tough little ship. It probably would have given the refit Lakota a run for its money.
So if the Yorktown was repainted Enterprise NCC-1701-A, does that mean that the solar sail failed and the east Indian captain, portrayed by tennis pro Vijay Amitraj, perished along with his crew? Starfleet just needed enough time to tow back the starship to space dock, clean out the dead bodies and throw in some air freshener, and repaint the interior and exterior of the ship? Virtually instant replacement Enterprise NCC-1701-A.
Or do people think that the Ti Ho was floating around space dock for a while, and then repainted as NCC-1701-A?
There seemed to be plenty of interior space in Space Dock, so there could be many more vessels inside it that we didn't see during Star Trek IV.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Well, as Masao went and created a whole new thread for, Rick Sternbach came thru on the Operation: Retrieve charts:
quote:Posted by Rick Sternbach: Well, I found some data. Actually, found the chart. I haven't read this whole thread to see if anyone else found it, but here are the ships:
USS Eagle, 1701-refit type silhouette, NCC-956 <-Edited USS Potemkin, refit silhouette, NCC-1657 USS Excelsior, Excelsior-type silhouette, NCC-2000 USS Endeavour, refit silhouette, NCC-1895 USS Emden, refit silhouette, NCC-1856 USS Ahwahnee, refit silhouette, NCC-2048
The graphic I have says "Initial Operations." I've forgotten if there was more to the show'n'tell.
Rick
Thread can be found here: Operation: Retrieve Charts? Mr. Sternbach? Obviously, not the complete chart, but looks to be from at least one of the pages. Something's better than nothing, neh?
Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: There were no Connies in the movie until after the trial which would have been many hours or even days after the probes incursion.
Between the scene of Spock and Sarek and the crew on the shuttle - there could have been minutes, hours, days, weeks or MONTHS!! They could have had shore leave after their on-going ordeal since leaving Earth on a cadet training cruise in TWOK!
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
I don't think so considering Kirk was still wearing his flag uni. Also, if there'd been days, weeks, or months afterwards, don't you think at leastr ONE of them would have heard SOMETHING from SOMEONE about a brand new Enterprise? They were totally in the dark about a ship.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
In which case the span of time could have been between their rescue from the bay and the court trial. Which when you think about it makes more sence,considering that the authorities have a whole planet to put back together after all that disruption. The hearing could have easily took place a few days or weeks later. Remember that there has to be time for their debriefing, Gillian Taylor needs time to sign onto her science vessel (possible the Copernicus) and remember that at the begining of the movie Sarek had (apparantly) just arrived on Earth and at the end of the movie he was heading back to Vulcan, that quite a way to go if it's only for a few hours and I'm sure an Ambassador can find something to do with himself for a week or so.
Registered: Apr 2000
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quote:Taylor needs time to sign onto her science vessel (possible the Copernicus)
Wait a minute. Her science vessel was a seagoing vessel not a spaceship, wasn't it?
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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Never clearly identified on-screen and it's not in-script that I've ever heard tell of. Still, you never know.
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Yeah, but what would she do in space? I don't think she'd leave the whales alone.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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