posted
Yeah, but...what's the difference? The Ferengi show up and you don't like it? But if the Hera had you would have? This is the part I'm confused about.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Except Riker: he got dick.
Who's dick?
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Jesus fuck: They're playing the "deanna's-dead- long-lost-sister" horseshit now. Time to watch CNN ot possibly fork out my eyes or something less painful than this episode.
HEY! That is one of Lwaxana's best eps.
Dark Page Progress Half A Life
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: First of all, huh?
Second of all, how does replacing "Captain Savage" or whatever his name was (Come to think of it, ______ Savage was the name of the actor, wasn't it?) with "Geordi's mom" do anything at all to improve the quality of anything? "Well, I've now got a vendetta...against Geordi's mom!" "You don't know what it's like. We'd be dead without...Geordi's mom!" Pointless. Swapping out one set of new characters for another doesn't change anything. All you'd get would be a shorter episode title.
Lastly, why is it that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this? I wasn't even sassing!
OK - this is SO not what I meant. I mean - if they wanted a story with ANOTHER lost Starfleet Ship - the Hera would have been better to have than the whole Equinox story line. There's a ship out there mostly full of Vulcans... and seeing as Madge Sinclair had died after "Interface" - they could have had her character as dying on transit through the Caretaker's 'ride'.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote: Yeah, but...what's the difference? The Ferengi show up and you don't like it? But if the Hera had you would have? This is the part I'm confused about.
Wow, no...all I am saying, or have said, is that the episode with the Ferengi was really all we saw in respect of "lost and then found again despite all odds" and that seeing-an-episode-about-the-Hera-in-a-similar-vein would have more preferable than an episode about a random encounter with a random AQ ship such as the Equinox...
EDIT - Also, if you confusion comes in part from: "I meant that the Ferengi episode ("False Profits") was a bad tie in, and if it sounds as if I did, what I meant was that a tie-in with the Hera would mean more to "continuity of lost things we're aware of" through the series than the number of *random* finds Voyager made."
Make that was to a was not and I have no idea how that slipped through the cracks, prolly makes my whole statement sound a little more sensical. Amazing what 3 letters can do.
P.S. - Please! Bring back the longer-edit-time for posts, two hours or whatever it is at blows goats.
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Sol System: But the Ferengi you speak of were a tie-in to a previous Star Trek episode. Unless you're talking about the ones who wanted to collect a nice sample of Borg nanoprobes, which sounds like a perfectly reasonable business opportunity (and story) to me, if a bit unethical, like writing software for the RIAA.
I meant that the Ferengi episode ("False Profits") was a bad tie in, and if it sounds as if I did, what I meant was that a tie-in with the Hera would mean more to "continuity of lost things we're aware of" through the series than the number of *random* finds Voyager made.
The entire premise of Geordi's argument about the Hera was that it could have been displaced by its touchy trionic warp doohickeys which possibly created an artificial funnel thing (if memory serves). Finding the Hera lost in the DQ could have confirmed Geordis theory...and gave the viewer a tie-in with TNG and Earth with something that they have seen before or are familiar with, such as the Ferengi/Barazan Wormhole episode or the one where they find Amelia Earhart.
In contrast, they threw a bunch of *random* bunk at us of other things lost in the DQ that Voyager beat the odds in finding...the Raven tops my list on that. Then there was the *random* finds such as: the old Klingon Battlecruiser, "Dreadnought", the "Equinox", the "Friendship One" probe, the "Ares IV" probe...we never knew they were missing/lost/etc yet the writers felt it necessary to find them...to me, that is more boring than a meaningful AQ tie-in, if that was they were intent on shoving down our throats.
Futurama Guy is the ONLY one to get what I originally mentioned.
Finding the Hera doesn't mean Geordi immediately knows. It is indeed the whole idea of them just inventing up new ships and alpha quadrant tie-ins when they have a (possible) few already.
Andrew
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by Darkwing: Ah, but if, say, Ransom had been the ranking survivor of the Hera, and Geordi's mom died, then the idea would work. Seriously, had they gone to that trouble, it would've worked and made a small tie-in, which would've been nice, but otherwise not changed much, considering where voyager was.[/qb]
Only problem with this is that Capt. LaForge was in command of a ship with - as quoted above - 300 Vulcans as the crew. I don't see the same ethical problem coming up as we had on the "Equinox" two-parter, as I seriously doubt the Vulcan's would have "overlooked" the use of alien life-forms as a fuel source that happened w/Ransom & Co. ENT excluded, we've never seen a Vulcan who didn't have some morales. Well, Pon Farr not counting, of course.
quote:Better would have been inclusion of later TNG eps of a sprinkling of dialogue that showed Geordi still grieving, but coping. 20 seconds of him leaving Troi's office as Riker comes to consult her about the forehead-problem of the week, maybe, or a few seconds of Guinan commiserating as picard shows the alien ambassador Ten-Forward acouple weeks later, would all have been nice without requiring a full ep devoted to it while adding a little personal depth and layering to the character. [/QB]
I agree that it might have been more interesting to have brought better closure to Geordi, but it wasn't in bringing Hera back. Showing him leaving counseling sessions w/Troi would have been great. Or maybe Geordi and Data reminiscing about his mom in Ten Forward, the Holodeck, engineering, what have you. Any combination thereof would have fairly decent and not taken away much from the "A Story" in an episode. That's one thing that I wasn't liking much the last couple seasons of TNG: they weren't doing a lot of follow-thru background stuff as they did before. Well, unless you count yet another tie-in to another Klingon Story involving Worf....
Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Darkwing: Ah, but if, say, Ransom had been the ranking survivor of the Hera, and Geordi's mom died, then the idea would work. Seriously, had they gone to that trouble, it would've worked and made a small tie-in, which would've been nice, but otherwise not changed much, considering where voyager was.
Only problem with this is that Capt. LaForge was in command of a ship with - as quoted above - 300 Vulcans as the crew. I don't see the same ethical problem coming up as we had on the "Equinox" two-parter, as I seriously doubt the Vulcan's would have "overlooked" the use of alien life-forms as a fuel source that happened w/Ransom & Co. ENT excluded, we've never seen a Vulcan who didn't have some morales. Well, Pon Farr not counting, of course. [/QB]
And for me that is why I was getting at maybe even a fresh story altogether, they have been known to happen. As far as Equinox, that very easily could have been an 'alien of the week' episode where Voyager 'saves the day', but to make it 'hit home' more they made it a 'Starfleet vessel' and make it a finale/premiere...but, to me, the problem was..."Equinox??", "Nova-class??", "An old Academy boyfriend of B'Lanna", "the fucked up Yridian reference", "Cool ship design", but what the hell is this?
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
The "old boyfriend" tie-in with B'Lanna was total crap: the odds of that are litereally up there with my winning the lottery with a quick-pick.
Another problem with the Hera replacing the Equinox in the story is that a Nebula class ship would easily swat Voyager (based on the battles of the USS Phionex at least).
A LOT would have to re-written to make the Hera being there work.
As long as we're on the topic of failed follow-ups: What ever happened to Lore?!? (it's assumed he was disassembled, but where is his parts? data would'nt just destroy the parts (and end his life) and I doubt they'd be destroyed in Enterprise D's crash.
...oh well, at least I get to read about what happened to Ro in the DS9 books.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I think this thread has eaten its own tail.
All I'm thinking, and I think this is all I really have to say about this, is that I don't see what "False Profits" has to do with anything. It was an episode whose structure was explicitly based on a TNG episode, and it wasn't really all that good. (Though, it's been awhile since I've seen it.) I'd argue that it not being very good had little to do with its TNG connection. Thus, how can we use it as a guide to anything? Obviously, having a TNG reference does not make for an inherently better episode. And once we've shown that, all things being equal, the roots of a story have far less to do with its overall quality than other factors, the question of whether or not the Equinox being the Hera would improve (or unimprove) the eponymous episode becomes rather moot, don't you think?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Nebbie v Intrepid - depends on the circumstances.
I agree with Futurama Guy - NOT having the Equinox story line with the alien beings as fuel - a whole new story could have been really fantastic with a crew of mainly 300 Vulcans and I would assume other peoples as the minority.
I reckon they could have had Captain La Forge as having died on the way (cause Madge Sinclair had already passed away by that time).
You could have had seen what nearly 7 years in the Delta Quadrant would have done to all these Vulcans.
There could be 'struggles' between the Vulcans and Non-Vulcans.
A Question of is it Kathryn Janeway who has basically allowed Voyager to survive all those years were another ship failed?
A Tuvok/Ponfarr opportunity?
A difference in opinion as to how to get home? Vulcans being more methodical and less risk taking than Janeway?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
The equinox story would have just been improved tenfold with about a season's worth of foreshadowing. Y'know...Voyager hears of another Starfleet ship, finds some debris or a derilict sensor probe from Equinox and eventually makes audio contact while weeks away.... If it was built up more and if there was some follow-up with the promising characters that stayed aboard Voyager at the two-parter's end, I'd be a much bigger fan of the Episode.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
. . . Actually. . . It occurs to me, if it had been Geordi's Mum in command of the ship Voyager encountered, then quite likely she'd have died in the end, right? Which would put Geordi's pursuit of the surviving Voyager crewmembers in "Timeless" in a WHOLE new light. You wouldn't just have Evil Geordi's Mum, you'd have Evil Geordi!
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Amazing what 3 letters can do. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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