posted
Considering the Genesis device restructured matter in a nebula big enough for starships to cruise around in (not to mention needing warp drive to get out of in front of the wave effect), I think it wouldn't be much of a stretch for it to totally rework a planet from the core outward. Hell, for that matter, the Genesis effect might have created a whole solar system; anybody remember seeing a sun anywhere near the Mutara nebula before the thing went off?
-------------------- The difference between genius and idiocy? Genius has its limits.
Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
That's something that's always bothered me. It's likely that there was a small newly-formed star (just a few million years old) in the nebula (convient, I know) but the Genesis planet never really coud have been a success: the orbit would have had to be magically perfect (meaning the Reliant would have had to be in the "life zone" for class M planets). Next consider comets, asteroids and lethal radiation from the former nebula itself and it should have been no suprise the planet was tearing itself apart- protomatter or no.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Well something was providing difuse light to Regula and it must have orbited a star unless it's one of those nifty rogue planetoids that are featured in Trek so often. And the Mutara Nebula probably would have just been black dust if it were not lighted by something.
I get the impression that the Genesis Device has graduated levels of power depending on the amount of protomatter used and that Khan "kicked it up a notch" to full power being the evil warlord kind of dude he is and wanting no chance for the Enterprise to escape.
Don't you think that the explosion featured at the end of TWoK would have ripped apart a planet if it had taken place on the surface like the graphic said it was intended to do? I think the only thing that saved Regula was a marginal bit of distance between it and the primary blast. And certainly they must not have lit that sucker up at full power inside that cave?
So I do think the Genesis Device is capable of destroying a planet and maybe even a star if it's at full power (didn't they use protomatter to kick start a star in one episode of DS9?).
Plus, regardless, at the end of ST:3, Regula seemed to be losing an awful lot of matter to space in those huge eruptions, I wouldn't be surprised if the planetoid broke apart under the tectonic stress.
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
Did the Metryon Cascade that killed Neelix's family actually destroy the moon he lived on or just scour the surface?
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
re: Genesis: I think that Genesis would have to qualify as a weapon based on its effects seen in the simulations that Kirk (and the viewers) saw. It effectively scoured the surface of everything!
As for the Genesis Planet... well, maybe the planet NOT being in a perfect orbit was part of what contributed to its demise? Maybe the whole setup was somewhat more workable than David and Saavik seemed to decide, but of course the whole project got dropped and so the full ramifications on a REAL field test of Genesis were never considered.
I don't think that Genesis had anything other than one setting -- and Khan was hardly in any condition to do anything other than just turn it on, anyway! The explosion of the Reliant could easily be due to the Genesis wave interacting with an antimatter warp core... (Besides, we DID see an explosion on the surface of the moon in the original simulation... I don't think the Reliant's explosion was necessarily bigger than that.)
re: the Metreon Cascade: That was just some kind of massive bombardment of radiation and/or plasma... as I recall, the atmosphere was actually still mostly breathable afterwards, although most life was eradicated because of the nasty effects. Remember that Neelix led one of the rescue teams to head for the moon after the attack...
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Woodside Kid: anybody remember seeing a sun anywhere near the Mutara nebula before the thing went off?
My impression has always been that there was a star not too far away that was illuminating the Regula planetoid. The Mutara nebula was not far way at all since both ships were there in no time under impulse power so that star was probably also providing the illumination of the nebula. When the Relaint self-destructed with the Genesis explosion, I always considered that the Genesis Effect terraformed the surface of Regula.
(I also assumed that part of the planet's instability may have been caused because the Genesis device would've also interacted with the former Genesis experiment underground.) Maybe protomatter doesn't like coming into contact with itself??!
On an unrelated note, I always though the ending of Trek II was messed up. It was played out several times throughout the film that Khan was furious that Kirk kept 'besting' him. It woul've been more fitting for Khan's dying sight to be the Enterprise reach warp. Khan would've died knowing that Kirk ultimately defeated him. As it is, Khan thinks he killed Kirk.
quote:On an unrelated note, I always though the ending of Trek II was messed up. It was played out several times throughout the film that Khan was furious that Kirk kept 'besting' him. It woul've been more fitting for Khan's dying sight to be the Enterprise reach warp. Khan would've died knowing that Kirk ultimately defeated him. As it is, Khan thinks he killed Kirk.
I've felt the same way. Except that that would very likely have led to a very cliched scene where the villain shouts "NOOOOOO!!!!!" just before he's blown to smithereens. Khan's too good for that, IMO.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I only thought TWOK was screwy because Kirk obviously knew about Ceti Alpha V and what Kahn's people had to have gone through. They touch on it briefly when kirk shouts at Chekov "I know what he blames me for!". How in fuck could he have known that unless Mr. Admiral knew all about the planet's devestation and decided Kahn and the others were toast. He wrote them off and it cost the Regula crew, Reliant's captain and (indirectly) David's and Spok's lives. He's the villian in the movie. Kirk.
Kahn is just an obvious Ahab figure.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Perosnally, the Genesis effect never made sense as shown in the film. A device intended for use on planetary bodies goes off in a nebula and magically knows how to make a planet from gas and dust. Not only that, but the shockwave goes out and then miraculously makes all the materials fall back inwards (what did it do, convert it all to superdense material?)
As to the star, there is the one shot of the Reliant coming headlong at the Enterprise where there's a really bright light behind Reliant...you could say that was a star, except that it conveniently fades out just in time for the phaser barrage.
Crap science...
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
I've always assumed that Regula and the star it was orbiting were inside the Mutara Nebula, and that perhaps the Mutara Nebula itself was created by the Regula star going all red-giant, sloughing off its outer layers and burning Regula to a crisp in the process. Genesis scooped up all that stellar ejecta and its, uh, matrix was naturally attracted to Regula. By, oh, let's say, gravity. Or something.
Anyway, my point is that it seems to me that the Genesis Planet was Regula, plus one nebula's worth of junk.
I suppose this might raise the question of why they didn't just use Regula as a test site in the first place, but incorporating a big dust cloud into the results was apparently not in their design specifications.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Dont forget incorperating several million pounds of Spacelab Regula 1 and whatever powered it.
The antimatter in the Enterprise probably didint help towards then end either.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
I can't remember for sure, but in ST3 the alien Mccoy tries to get a ride from said "Mutara is planet forbidden" Sort of like the Mutara sector was actually Starfleet's Area 51. Who knows what else was being "tested" in the area.
-------------------- I am the Anti-Abaddon. I build models at a scale of 2500/1
Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
Nope: James Hong said: "Genesis! (in almost the same way he said "Ah! Mr. Burton!). Genesis forbidden!"
Then the two LEAST subtle undercover operatives for starfleet intel show up. Small fucking wonder the Klingons could secretly build the fire-while-cloaked KBOP: those guys in starfleet intelligence are morons. The klingons probably built the ship in Earth's orbit, over starfleet HQ.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
(Besides, we DID see an explosion on the surface of the moon in the original simulation... I don't think the Reliant's explosion was necessarily bigger than that.)![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
