posted
At the end when Kirk says "Second star to the left..." he really means it: Solar incineration was the only way Starfleet could get the old man smell out.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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First, see Dat's post. Whereas Spock's interpretation can be interpreted (Spock thought Kirk might not wish to give up the command seat and stay on, thus needing a science officer) or however you rationalize it, I don't quite see how you can get over Kirk's line that "ship and crew" were due to stand down, or over Starfleet's orders to report to Spacedock to be decommissioned.
posted
Is there any chance that it was the crew that was to report in and not the ship... seeing as how they did disobey orders and would be up for an investigation of some kind--- perhaps SFC just wanted to go about it the easy way, suspend the entire crew from active duty and put a new on onboard so that the ship wasn't sitting in spacedock doing nothing [but then there is the problem with the fact that the ship was damaged to a point that all the repairs could have taken place during an investigation and the down times of the ship and crew would be overlapped].
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
Naaa.... STVI ended things nicely without the prospect of another mission: even with a whole new crew. Decommisioning also saves having to: A) make up a whole new crew/captain/mission taht we've never heard of and B) explain what happened to the connie refit if she wasnt decommisioned. It's not like Starfleet would launch the Enterprise B if the Enterprise A was still serving as a training vessel of anything.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
And I think that's evidence that either the Enterprise-A was an older Connie, or that the entire line was being retired. If the ship was older, it would make sense that it was nearing the end of its operational life-span. If the ship wasn't as old, then why would it be decomissioned? One possible explanation: Starfleet decided to retire the entire class!
posted
I think the class was decommisioned. It's possible the Miranda was spared due to modular components that the older Connie didint have, allowing for endless refits.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Except that the ships at Wolf 359 were a bit of a rag-tag fleet, with Oberths, Springfields and all sorts of rarely seen ships. The Constitution might have been pulled from reserves or even from Acadamy training service.
posted
It could have been something pulled from a shipyard, a civillian ship there to aid survivors or that wacky "challenger" design with the constalation parts and a connie refit secondary hull hanging down.
Personally I think it's proof that starfleet faked the whole Wolf359 battle just like they faked the moon landing......
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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So, all of the Galaxy saucers floating around really belonged to Galaxies, even the ones that were New Orleanses, Nebulas, etc.?
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quote:Originally posted by Dat: Well, dialog in the movie did contradict itself. Right after the meeting with the top brass, Kirk did say to Spock that the ship and crew were to stand down. This was before Spock's and Valeris' conversation aboard the Enterprise. Also, at the end before Kirk's log, Uhura did say that she received a message from Starfleet to return to Spacedock to be decommissioned.
It could just mean the 'old crew'. Or even that the E-A was to stop it's missions and the E-B take over... and presumably Valeris might have been the Science officer on that ship.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
True. The dialogue does contradict itself. Which causes confusion.
Because, Jeffy boy, your assertations that the Enterprise-A was an old ship are based on:
1/ Something Roddenberry made up on the spot that should in no way be deemed even remotly canonical.
2/ The fact that the crew occasionally says that the ship is being decommisioned, even though at other times they say that it isn't.
Omega has used more watertight arguments than that.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:1/ Something Roddenberry made up on the spot that should in no way be deemed even remotly canonical.
If you mean the "Yorktown" bit, I actually didn't know he said that. I remember reading a thread on that here on Flare. I do think the case can be made however - all the technical difficulties with the ship can be attributed to the disruption of the Probe. On the other hand, you can argue its a new ship, but then you have to wonder about Utopia Planitia's intelligence: why plop on an old bridge module when you're just going to replace it a couple of months later?
quote:2/ The fact that the crew occasionally says that the ship is being decommisioned, even though at other times they say that it isn't.
And, gee golly, the decommissioning dialogue is supported by the presence of a brand new USS Enterprise NCC-1701-B in a film prologue set only a few years later. I think I win this one.
quote:Because, Jeffy boy, your assertations that the Enterprise-A was an old ship
Which is why I said "if we assume" in prefacing my argument. Didn't read that part, didja? Silly Liam.
There's more than the dialogue in Star Trek VI supporting the notion that the Constitution-Class was retired, or did you skip over that bit? Let me rehash:
If the Enterprise-A was in fact a new(er) Connie, why was she retired so soon (perhaps along with the entire class)? We know she was decomissioned because evidence in "Generations" (namely, a new USS Enterprise) hints that the OLD USS Enterprise is no longer in service.
Now, quite a bit of the evidence IS circumstantial - we've never seen a Connie outside of time-travel episodes post-Star Trek VI. We've seen lots of ships from the same time period - Oberths, Excelsiors, Mirandas, Constellations ... pretty clearly, Starfleet was capable of building ships which could last, so why no Constitutions?
You could argue that the Enterprise-A was a newer ship, so would have a longer life-span. Okay. The Enterprise-Nil is schedules to be retired in Star Trek III ... I forget how old the Admiral states she is, but I know he's off by a few decades, she's what, forty at that point? So if we assume that the lifespan of a Connie is 40 years, then it makes sense that newer Connies would have the same (minimum) life span, at least 40 years. And yet how many years take place between Kirk & Co. warping out at the end of Star Trek IV in Enterprise-A, and the ship warping out at the end of Star Trek VI to be decomissioned? If the ship IS a new Connie, she's being retired quite a bit early, don't you think? This supports one of two conclusions: the Enterprise-A was an older, recomissioned Constitution, OR, the Constitution-Class was retired.
If you don't like my argument, why don't you try posting a counter-argument that amounts to more than brown-nosing Omega?
quote:Originally posted by TSN: So, all of the Galaxy saucers floating around really belonged to Galaxies, even the ones that were New Orleanses, Nebulas, etc.?
Well the Nebula saucer section IS distinctly different from a Galaxy Class one and the New Orleans, Cheyenne, Springfield Class saucers are again very distinct (most notably in size) so I still maintain the secondary hull couldn't have been anything other than Constitution refit. It is possible to have some other class ship with the same hull, but there are really very few truly crossover parts around amongst all the Starfleet classes.
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