Topic: $$ Errand of Tech! ["Observer Effect" Spoilers]
Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
Member # 742
posted
14 replies and no one mentioned the Cardassian name dropping yet? Where exactly is the Enterprise now and what exactly did the Cardassians do out there? And maybe even more important: why does everyone seem so advanced compared to Earth? The Cardassians obviously had warp drive centuries ago and travveled great distances. The Vulcans have warp for millenia, as do the klingons. Still, there dosen't seem to be much progress. Otherwise we'd now praise Star Trek Enterpise as the best show since TOS because the Cardassians would have kicked our asses during the Border Wars and the TNG-shows would never have happened.
-------------------- "This is great. Usually it's just cardboard walls in a garage."
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
I thought I heard mention of the Cardassians, but wasn't sure as I was dead tired and falling asleep. I enjoyed the episode a bit, though.
-------------------- Picard: Mr. Crusher, what's our maximum speed this week? Wesley: [checking manual] Uh, 9.4, sir. Picard: Very good. Take us to Warp 9.8 then. Wesley: Aye, sir. Warp 9.2 it is.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: -- The Organians have performed this same experiment on the Klingons and the Cardassians, both of whom ended up killing the infected crewmembers.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
And we already knew Cardassians were here during this time from DS9. Some poet guy was exiled to Vulcan a loooong time ago. Even way before ENT, IIRC. But the Cardassians in this timeframe are possibly not yet so resource-hungry.
As for technology, it is not that hard to understand. Many of those long-dead civilizations (the Preservers, the Tkon, the Iconians, etc) must've had warp-drive, so the technology may have been around a long long time, being passed around (and stolen) through the millenia. Which is why the supposed independent discovery of the transporter by Bill Cosy Emory Erickson was not very convincing either.
posted
Actually, I think the Cardassian exile on Vulcan was there just two hundred years prior to Dax's mention of him. This is the sort of thing the Encyclopedia is for, but at the moment I couldn't find mine for a cash reward.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
What I found a little more disturbing about the use of the Organians is the fact that they had been doing this sort of "up close and personal" investigation of lesser species for centuries. Whatever happened to "the mere presence of beings like yourselves is intensely painful to us"?
-------------------- The difference between genius and idiocy? Genius has its limits.
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Cardassians and Ferengi both cross paths (well, Cardiassians indirectly) with the NX-01 yet we never encounter them until TNG.
The impression given then is that "The Last Outpost" was first contact with the Ferengi and first contact with Cardassians happened after Kirk's era.
Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Woodside Kid: What I found a little more disturbing about the use of the Organians is the fact that they had been doing this sort of "up close and personal" investigation of lesser species for centuries. Whatever happened to "the mere presence of beings like yourselves is intensely painful to us"?
Well, the two observers might have ben specially trained for this type of contact and they may have to spend decades in meditation afterwards. From the questions that the observers kept asking, leads me to two conclusions: 1) they didn't understand a lot of the basic reasoning behind the humanoid thinking process or passionate reactions. 2) they probably didn't get very far with these kind of questions, since they hadn't learned any tact in 800 years of observing.
-------------------- joH'a' 'oH wIj DevwI' jIH DIchDaq Hutlh pagh (some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps in the morning) The Woozle!
Registered: Nov 2002
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"...and first contact with Cardassians happened after Kirk's era."
I don't think there was ever any mention of when humans first met Cardassians. We know they were fighting wars by the 2350s, but that's about it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: Cardassians and Ferengi both cross paths (well, Cardiassians indirectly) with the NX-01 yet we never encounter them until TNG.
The impression given then is that "The Last Outpost" was first contact with the Ferengi and first contact with Cardassians happened after Kirk's era.
Ugh. Though (they thought) they hadn't met the Ferengi up close and personal prior to "The Last Outpost," they had heard plenty about them from third-hand accounts and the like. This is actually stated in the episode, aside from being evident from that Ferengi comment in "Encounter at Farpoint." Plus, Picard had a battle with them years earlier without knowing it. Why do people continue to complain about this? How would Archer and company have any way of knowing that it was the Ferengi they encountered, anyway?
And, as others have said, there is evidence of the Cardassians being in contact with the Federation (or at least races that will eventually make up the Federation) fairly early on. Tobin was only Dax's second host, and he met the Cardassian poet Iloja of Prim on Vulcan well before the mid-23rd century, when the third host, Emony, met Leonard McCoy on Earth. I don't know what you based your statement that the implied first contact occurred later on, but we've been saying for years that the Cardassians are one of the 24th century races that *could* and *should* appear on ENT.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
1. "the mere presence of beings like yourselves is intensely painful to us"
Perhaps it's guilt after they've lived as humans for a long time. Sure, it completely changes the original implication of the quote, but it's workable.
2. I've been working on figuring out more detail of Cardassian history, but the work is still in progress. Suffice it to say that the Cardassians of this era ought to be much more peaceful and spiritual, though still a bit less refined.
What I mean by the latter is that in the 2360's, Bolian skins were desired by Cardassian women for their suppleness ("Pathways"). I can't imagine that sort of inhumanity just appearing without precedent in the midst of a military dictatorship.
I've not yet nailed down a rough date for the military's takeover of Cardassia. "Chain of Command" appeared to imply that it had been within Gul Madred's lifetime, whereas comments from DS9 and VOY sometimes seemed to indicate a longer period of time.
The idea of the Cardassians killing the patients can, unfortunately, go either way.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
And Kirk and co. were actually on Organia, the homeworld of these creatures. It would be pretty painful if lab rats came into a scientist's house to observe him.
posted
Actually, given the "5000 years to prepare" bit, it may simply be that humans were there too early. In any case, considering the observers' observation that physical pain was odd, it could only have been some form of emotional discomfort.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
"How would Archer and company have any way of knowing that it was the Ferengi they encountered, anyway?"
Because, when someone takes over your ship, but you end up capturing them, you'd be expected to interrogate them before letting them go (assuming you have to let them go).
"What I mean by the latter is that in the 2360's, Bolian skins were desired by Cardassian women for their suppleness ('Pathways'). I can't imagine that sort of inhumanity just appearing without precedent in the midst of a military dictatorship."
Nazis were known to make things out of human skin. That didn't take long to "just appear".
Registered: Mar 1999
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