posted
Your scoffing is hardly befitting considering the circumstances.
It is rather well known that they wrote/rewrote many of their scipts 'on the fly' and were doing so up to and during the actual filming, in many cases improvising along the way.
Otherwise, desperation is hardly reason to shoot a working and feasable theory that seems to support the evidence that does indicate the existance of a ship called Discovery.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
It's not feasable and that's why I'm jibing at it. Roddenberry and crew have said many times that they never thought Trek would return once it was cancelled and that they wrote stories to self contained. They would'nt have dropped a one-liner about a ship that was'nt part of the story and would'nt be shown. I too saw the episode a few nights back on Sci-fi and recall thinking it was a odd line and poor dialogue but not that he was refering to a ship. It's just a word refreing to ascientific curiosity and nothing more.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Roddenberry and crew have said many times that they never thought Trek would return once it was cancelled and that they wrote stories to self contained.
What the hell is that supposed to do with anything?
quote: I too saw the episode a few nights back on Sci-fi and recall thinking it was a odd line and poor dialogue but not that he was refering to a ship. It's just a word refreing to ascientific curiosity and nothing more.
And all I am saying is that it was italicized in 'cc' (closed captioning) the same way it was when they say ENTERPRISE or any other ships name. That is as much in support of the idea as anything else that brought it up in 'SWDAO' in the first place.
Although I agree with regards to the 'one liner' bit, nonetheless, it is a feasable explaination for the 'sounds like a ship' and the 'italicized like a ship' pros of this debate. The only cons I see are that 'it hasn't been included in any of the quasi-canon sources' or 'the wording sounds funny'.
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posted
But CC is not made by the writers of TOS so it prone to many errors....even misspellings.
My point about the "stand alone stories" is that there never were refrences to ships that would no be a part of the story (in some direct way)or seen on screen. They just didint do throw away lines back then like on TNG. People would'nt have been intrested in that kind of minutea back then and in that era of TV. Gene's concept was "Wagon Train to the Stars" not "The Jane's guide to the future".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Brought up the "Discovery" thread on HobbyTalk a few months back... never reached a satisfactory conclusion there either.
Personally, I think Kirk meant to notify another starship (the Discovery). I'm sticking with that, and assigning the name Discovery to one of my yet-to-be-built models
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Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
So post some pics of your models already! Don't you want to famous like Griffworks and Shik? What's with you man?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
The USS Carolina is another example of one-liner starships. And, just because the ship isn't included in the official sources can't be considered a valid reason to dismiss a ship. How many ships have we come across on these boards that have been heard or read in an episode and were not included in the official reference sources? Plenty.
Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: So post some pics of your models already! Don't you want to famous like Griffworks and Shik? What's with you man?
I prefer the term "infamous", thank you very much....
quote:Originally posted by newark: The USS Carolina is another example of one-liner starships. And, just because the ship isn't included in the official sources can't be considered a valid reason to dismiss a ship. How many ships have we come across on these boards that have been heard or read in an episode and were not included in the official reference sources? Plenty.
Good point. I wonder what class Carolina was really meant to be. I know that the STE shows a pic of it as a Daedalus class ship, but I ain't buying that. I also wonder if Discovery was meant to be any specific class or if the producers of TOS even gave thought to the classes of ships that are named, but never actually seen on-screen like Okuda (& Sternbach?) apparently did on TNG thru VOY.
Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: But CC is not made by the writers of TOS so it prone to many errors....even misspellings.
No kidding. Some years ago I was watching a laserdisc of the musical version of Little Shop of Horrors with the CC on and they had the song lyrics incorrect!
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Laz1701: Frank is absolutely right. That little bit of dialogue is just an example of grammatical sloppiness. Kirk is really ordering that someone (presumably Starfleet, or at that point in time in the series, EUSPA or Space Central) be notified of the discovery of the planet in what was thought to be a star desert devoid of any planetary objects.
The line in the novelization, based on an early draft of the script, is "Notify the discovery of the planet on subspace radio." The line should have been something like, "Broadcast the discovery of the planet..." or "Transmit the discovery of the planet...", but even as written, it's obvious that Kirk means someone should be notified of the discovery, not that the Discovery should be notified. Otherwise, we have to believe that Kirk wants the USS Discovery of the planet to be notified. What planet does the USS Discovery belong to, then? See my point?
Apparently, when the script reached final draft, the words "of the planet" were dropped in order to tighten up the script, and what was left was "Notify the discovery on subspace radio." Or maybe Shatner himself dropped the words. But the meaning is clear.
Of course, this is an issue that will not die, because there are always those who stick to their guns despite evidence and common sense and believe what they wish to believe.
So the line wasn't very grammatically correct in the first place, and then it got fouled up even more when Shatner clipped it during delivery.
End. Of. Debate.
-MMoM
P.S. And BTW, SciFi's closed-captioning is FUCKED. Don't ever pay any attention to it. Ever.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Unfortunately, we have the show as the only canonical material MoM. Therefore, following the rules of grammer and word usage, discovery is a noun and thus is the name of ship.
Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by newark: Unfortunately, we have the show as the only canonical material MoM. Therefore, following the rules of grammer and word usage, discovery is a noun and thus is the name of ship.
So you're saying that the mis-speaking of a line (or even mis-writing) creates a ship out of nowhere?
I don't agree. I'm not that desperate for another entry in my shiplist...
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
That's as silly as Kirk uttering a line of: "Notify Command of our situation" Does this line mean there's a USS Command out there in Enterprise's wake and it's the nearest starship? Of course not: it's just a word, not a proper name.
Not only is the assumption of a USS Discovery grasping at straws but it also means that Kirk put that entire crew in mortal danger by not warning them about Trelane! I sure didint hear him say "notify the Discovery not to go get themselves killed by this uber-powerful alien entity". On the other hand, it would'nt be the first time Kirk left people for dead on some planet.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I have heard the character Kirk speak similiar lines before; however, in each case, I knew he wasn't speaking of a ship. It's in the useage of the words and the grammar.
As it stands, the episode does indicate the existence of a ship for those who are not blessed with background knowledge or god-like powers. If you want to believe otherwise based on some obscure knowledge or the Giant Bird of the Galaxy told you so, that is your right.
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