quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Not only is the assumption of a USS Discovery grasping at straws but it also means that Kirk put that entire crew in mortal danger by not warning them about Trelane! I sure didint hear him say "notify the Discovery not to go get themselves killed by this uber-powerful alien entity". On the other hand, it would'nt be the first time Kirk left people for dead on some planet.
That was not even an issue, if we are going to split hairs. At that point all they were aware of was the planet...Trelane and his powers were not yet revealed.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
But if the "discovery" was a starship, would'nt Kirk have mentioned the need to warn them not to go there?
I mean really, your whole case stems from a stray bit of grammar and some CC done decades after the show aired, so I'd have to ask why there was no follow-up. He never said "...tell the Discovery not to explore that world, in fact we'll quarrentine it!"
MMM is right and his post-quote states the case well.
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Registered: Aug 2002
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....and what is the point or why would there be an urgent need to quarantine or avoid a rogue planet?? The was no implication of danger or reason for concern until Uhura reported the inability to get a transmission out. Why in Gods name are you arguing a need to warn another ship...that was certainly not the nature of the message in the first place, what-so-ever.
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"That's as silly as Kirk uttering a line of: 'Notify Command of our situation' Does this line mean there's a USS Command out there in Enterprise's wake and it's the nearest starship? Of course not: it's just a word, not a proper name."
Actually, as you used it there, it does seem to be a proper name, short for "Starfleet Command". You even capitalized it.
Besides, even acknowledging that "Command" isn't a ship, it's still someone. You can notify Command, you can notify hedquarters, you can notify the admiral, but you can't notify a discovery. A discovery is an event. It would be like saying "notify the explosion" or "notify the telephone call".
"Notify the discovery" only makes sense if "discovery" indicated some person or persons who can be informed about something. If it indicates a ship, the implication is that the crew of the ship are the ones being addressed. The only other explanation would be that Kirk was drunk or something and meant to say "notify [some undisclosed party of] the discovery". Which is likely the original intention, and something went dreadfully wrong somewhere between the writer's brain and Shatner's mouth.
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Shik
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posted
I'm surprised that in 3 pages, no one has thought to think of the fact that perhaps he meant to say "note the discovery" & his brain simply got ahead of his lips as is wont to do in some of our cases.
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: ....and what is the point or why would there be an urgent need to quarantine or avoid a rogue planet?? The was no implication of danger or reason for concern until Uhura reported the inability to get a transmission out. Why in Gods name are you arguing a need to warn another ship...that was certainly not the nature of the message in the first place, what-so-ever.
There you go, over analizing it again. If there was a USS Discovery, then Kirk would have had to warn then not to go to Gothos after he (as you claim) ordered the USS Discovery to be notified about the mysterious planet (presumably so they could follow up on the anomaly.) He'd have warned them off once he returned to the Enterprise and began fleeing from Telane. So, either he neglected to warn another starship of the danger (thereby possibly leaving them to Trlane's tender mercies) or there is no USS Discovery and the line is just a verbal mistake, like so many others in the Trek series.
See now?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
If I were feeling exasperated, and I am, I might venture to say that this whole conversation is ridiculous and silly. Kirk did not reference a ship named Discovery in TOS "The Squire of Gothos." He simply expressed himself in an awkward and not-wholly-grammatically-accurate sentence.
That's not to say that there isn't a ship named Discovery serving in Starfleet or having served in it at some point in the past. But it was NEVER mentioned on TOS or any other aired Star Trek series to date.
Please can't we stop this?
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I see pretty valid arguments on both sides, personally. However, I vote in favor of starship Discovery having only now been discovered (heh, heh...) in "The Squire of Gothos"!
Why?
'Cause it will exasperate MMoM, of course!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Seriously, if you go by exactly what is seen on-screen, the idea of a starship w/the name is what you almost have to go with. If you go w/common sense, you must accept that there was no starship Discovery mentioned in the episode and Kirk's brain was running fast in 5th gear while his mouth was still down around 2nd. I lean towards the flub, personally.
posted
There you go, bucking for yet another model to sit on your bench of half-built horrors! I call "Model in a Month Challenge" on you! (you can even drive me and MMM crazy and make Futurama's day by naming it Discovery !)
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I am thinking the request "Notify the Discovery on subspace" was for Captain Kirk to alert a survey ship of the existence of the planet Gothos. After his starship left the area, this ship would do a survey of the planet and report their findings.
Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by newark: I am thinking the request "Notify the Discovery on subspace" was for Captain Kirk to alert a survey ship of the existence of the planet Gothos. After his starship left the area, this ship would do a survey of the planet and report their findings.
And yes, that would all be well and good and sensical if that's what the author of the script wrote, but it isn't. There was no such intention and so the whole idea has nothing behind it.
Just how much of a pedant do you have to be to say "OMG Captain Kirk didn't use proper grammar! This is terrible and atrocious! We have to come up with an outlandish theory 40 years later to explain the glaring error of it all, and twist the known facts to make it sound plausible!"
Come off it, already...you're making yourself look silly.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
This is sweet from a guy who includes both Melbournes on his site. Look, dude, intentions change. So, get with the program.
Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by newark: This is sweet from a guy who includes both Melbournes on his site. Look, dude, intentions change. So, get with the program.
Oh that was low blow and you know it...
You're quite correct that my inclusion of both Melbournes is indeed ungainly and implausible. I only have it that way because I am ambivilent about which alternative road to take. (Excelsior as seen clearly in "Emissary" or Nebula as originally seen in BoBW and subsequently in "Future Imperfect" and also "Emissary.")
However I feel that is of little or no relevancy to the issue at hand. Sure, sometimes intentions are consciously altered by TPTB (or TIIC - "The Idiots In Charge" - as someone here was calling them recently ) but there has never been any such change about this whole thing. The only people ever to even suggest that there was a U.S.S. Discovery mentioned in SoG are message-board fans like you and a few others who just refuse to accept that this is a DEAD ISSUE.
It was a fine idea at the time, but it has long been disproven, ever since clarication was found in the form of the script.
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) but there has never been any such change about this whole thing. The only people ever to even suggest that there was a U.S.S. Discovery mentioned in SoG are message-board fans like you and a few others who just refuse to accept that this is a DEAD ISSUE.
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