posted
I can't read a single word of that strand of text.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Ok, bad example. On the USS Ahwahnee-side of Memory Alpha you can find a screenshot where you can read the name of the USS Ahwahnee (it is the left (unremastered) picture).
Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Ok, I see what you're saying now. But couldn't it just be that the text is scrolling and that HD cap just shows the text at a later time?
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I have watched the scene picture by picture, but I didn't found what I was looking for. If I'm correct then the Uss Ahwahnee is not mentioned anymore, at least not in this scene.
Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Well, if it's still on the tachyon grid, it's not really much of a problem.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by o2: I don't have S4 yet (in Germay it will only be released next month!) but did anybody checked if the registry of the USS Cochrane is now legibable? Unfortunately Memory Alpha has not been updated with the new material. It still shows a picture from the DVDs (were you barlely see nothing).
I'm now in a position to answer my own question: The registry of the ship is NCC-59318. This is not really a surprise.
Here comes the interessing part: If the same model was used in 'A Fistful of Datas' then the registry would be NCC-59318 as well. But since the Oberth is named 'Biko' in that episode I have to conclude that the ship in 'The Drumhead' is the 'Biko' as well and not the 'Cochrane'.
Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Assuming NCC numbers are fixed. Which they probably almost certainly are.
Alternatively, the ship might have changed it's name. Cochrane is probably quite a prestigious name for a ship, so perhaps something with a new kind of warp drive or whatnot was launched and named Cochrane. NCC-59318 was renamed Biko and resumed its life in a relegated position.
Or not. *Shrugs* could just be a thing they assumed no one would ever notice.
-------------------- I have plenty of experience in biology. I bought a Tamagotchi in 1998... And... it's still alive.
Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by o2: Here comes the interesting part: If the same model was used in 'A Fistful of Datas' then the registry would be NCC-59318 as well. But since the Oberth is named 'Biko' in that episode I have to conclude that the ship in 'The Drumhead' is the 'Biko' as well and not the 'Cochrane'.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that something about the Biko is going to change in TNG-R. They may just change the registry to match the one in the Encyclopedia (NCC-50331), or, along with the planet it's in front of, they may change the design of the ship entirely. Using stock footage of the Cochrane for the Biko was a poor decision, since it was described as a supply ship, something that the Oberth class had never been used for before.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by o2: I don't have S4 yet (in Germay it will only be released next month!) but did anybody checked if the registry of the USS Cochrane is now legibable? Unfortunately Memory Alpha has not been updated with the new material. It still shows a picture from the DVDs (were you barlely see nothing).
I'm now in a position to answer my own question: The registry of the ship is NCC-59318. This is not really a surprise.
Here comes the interessing part: If the same model was used in 'A Fistful of Datas' then the registry would be NCC-59318 as well. But since the Oberth is named 'Biko' in that episode I have to conclude that the ship in 'The Drumhead' is the 'Biko' as well and not the 'Cochrane'.
As far back as 2002, Spikeprovided screenshots that showed the number legibly. (The image links may well be dead by now, though.) Respectfully, I think your second conclusion is misguided. It would both be a distortion of what actually happened (the model was labeled as the Cochrane and then footage of it was reused as a different ship) and would conflict with the casualty list graphic from DS9 ("In The Pale Moonlight," et al) that again shows NCC-59318 attached to the name U.S.S. Cochrane.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that something about the Biko is going to change in TNG-R. They may just change the registry to match the one in the Encyclopedia (NCC-50331), or, along with the planet it's in front of, they may change the design of the ship entirely. Using stock footage of the Cochrane for the Biko was a poor decision, since it was described as a supply ship, something that the Oberth class had never been used for before.
Though I would appreciate a new starship very much I highly doubt that we will get something like that. And I doubt that they will change the registry either. But we have only 2 month till S5 is out on blu ray and we will see...
Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: As far back as 2002, Spikeprovided screenshots that showed the number legibly. (The image links may well be dead by now, though.) Respectfully, I think your second conclusion is misguided. It would both be a distortion of what actually happened (the model was labeled as the Cochrane and then footage of it was reused as a different ship) and would conflict with the casualty list graphic from DS9 ("In The Pale Moonlight," et al) that again shows NCC-59318 attached to the name U.S.S. Cochrane.
The ship list that is featured in the episode 'In the Pale Moonlight' is not the same that was published in the DS9 companion and that has referenced the Cochrane. There is still no canon source for a ship named 'Cochrane' in any episiode that has aired. But here I'm talking about information that is accessable right now with the TNG-R project. This piece of information has to be favoured over any other kind of information that has only be made available in 'written' form.
Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
I think you got that mixed up. The display reproduced in the companion is the one from "In the Pale Moonlight". It was later modified for "DS9 The Siege of AR 558" with Starfleet vessels replaced by Klingon and Romulan ships, but the Cochrane is on both lists. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/PWB_Tomal?file=Casualty_list%252C_The_siege_of_AR558_1.jpg
Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I don't have my own screencaps handy at the moment to verify, but going by memory I'm pretty sure the graphic in "In The Pale Moonlight" is indeed the one from the DS9 Companion, and that it was only later that it was modified, adding Romulan ships and deleting some of the SF ones. I don't remember if the Cochrane was among the deletions or not. (EDITED TO ADD: I now see from Spike's post above that it was not.) But I'll leave that aside for a moment.
It's one thing to consider a name that wasn't visible in the episode non-canon. (Though silly IMO, since it was surely on the model. Where else would the writers of the TNG Companion get the name, since it's not specified in the script? I don't believe they uncharacteristically just made it up.)
It's a another matter and a step too far to posit that every time stock footage of a ship is re-used, even if the registry is visible, it must represent the same ship, since there are many cases where this is impossible and it was clearly not the intent. (The same footage of the Hood from "Encounter At Farpoint" was re-used as many Excelsior class vessels in TNG, some specified to be other ships and some not. And was every single Akira we ever saw the same ship? They all had the same registry! There are numerous other [and maybe better] examples as well.)
I think excluding what we know from behind-the-scenes sources from consideration is counterproductive, because it's tantamount to a denial of the reality of the situation. There *was* a ship named Cochrane irrespective of whether that name was seen in the episode(s) as aired, and if we pretend there wasn't because of that technicality, we're simply ignoring the facts. Moreover, if we pretend that it was instead a ship from an episode that hadn't been written/produced yet, we're compounding the problem by adding retrospective speculation and interpolation of intent to the mix. I know I've done my fair share of that in the past, and that it can be part of the fun, and that it's ultimately all pretend, etc., but I hope my point is taken nonetheless.
[ September 23, 2013, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Indeed. o2, it's just a bit too anal-retentive to base stock footage of other ships as gospel. Yes, the ship described in dialog as the Biko has the registry number of the Cochrane, but did the Enterprise-D rendezvous with the Repulse every single time that we saw her flying next to an Excelsior? Of course not.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't have any stock footage at all (see my status under my username), and every time we saw another ship in TNG, it would be completely new footage of a new model of vessel, instead of stock and movie-era ships. But time and budget constraints, not to mention that at the time no one would ever have thought that future viewers would be using giant HDTVs and HD Bluray discs to analyze scenes to death, necessitated what they ended up using.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
Printer-friendly view of this topic