posted
One thing I forgot to mention: Perhaps one can ram ships that do not have bubble shields? It seems that shield bubbles all but disappeared for the duration of the Dominion war. Perhaps this was because they could not be modified to withstand Jem'Hadar phased-polaron weapons, yet conformal shields or "skinfields" could.
So Klingons would sail into battle expecting weapons fire and thus erecting their skinfields only. Yet the Jem'Hadar would strike by ramming, and no matter how powerful the shields, they would not have the "cushioning" ability of a bubble shield.
Then again, the Hideki rammed DS9 when the station did not have bubble fields. But the station's skinfields could have been orders of magnitude stronger than those of any starship, the Hideki might have been moving slowly (instead of just being shown in slow motion), or the ship might have exploded just before actual contact.
posted
*applauds* Well done, Darkie, you're getting the hang of it! As for those Klingon ships, have we ever seen them with bubble shields anyway?
------------------ "Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."
posted
A couple of times in TNG, I think. The BoPs certainly had bubbles, and I think we might have seen a bubble on a Vor'Cha in at least "Redemption I".
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
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posted
Ah, the old "bubble vs. skin" shield argument...
These so-called skin-shields obviously aren't very effective at stopping weapons fire:
"Way of the Warrior" shows us unshielded (?!) Klingon ships being ripped apart by incoming torpedoes and phaser hits, whereas in "Yesterday's Enterprise" or "Redemption" the B'rels/K'vorts/Vorcha's clearly were equipped with "green bubble" shields.
In "Call to Arms" DS9 seems to have only a rather limited "inner shielding" that is of the bubble type. These stopped the Hideki cold, yet failed to block incoming fire in "Way of the Warrior" because the station's shield projectors are destroyed rather easily... it seemed like the outer sections of the station had no shielding what-so-ever, we see huge explosions occuring on the outer docking ring where DS9 is hit (yet, oddly enough, no real remaining physical damage); I can't really swallow this.
Forward to "Sacrifice of Angels", neither the Dominion/Cardassian ships seemed to have shields (recall the Galor class that was given a pounding by the Galaxies, the phaser shots weren't blocked), as many Fed ships are simply cut right open (quite literally).
Then there is "Tears of the Prophets", we see the Klingon ships being rammed and blown to pieces a-la U.S.S. Odyssee. One might argue that their shields had already been weakened, but this is unlikely as the battle had only just begun and the ships were still in mint condition. Now, maybe the Klingons are arrogant enough to go into battle unshielded when the odds are good enough, but in a massive engagement like that, it would have been suicide. So, what happened to those good old-fashioned bubble shields? Were there in fact skin type shields in place? If so, then why do we see the Romulan Warbird sustain massive damage from plasma torpedoes (presumingly, the Romulans had this new skin too), and the Galaxy take a beating to its engineering hull when a row of torpedoes hits it?
It is odd that in a time when SFX are relatively easy to produce, some effects are simply left them out (to show the audience big booms&bangs, I reckon). Skin-type shielding doesn't exist, it was "invented" to explain certain irregularities.
As for the Odyssee: the fact that weapons can penetrate its shields, doesn't necessarily mean an entire ship can (even if it is making a run at full impulse, which it wasn't). Of course, the question wether Cpt. Keogg made a tactical error by diverting shield power to the phasers is hardly relevant, as no-one would have considered the possibily that the JH would actually ram the ship. And it WAS rammed in a vital section, the ship might have survived that blow if the matter/antimatter containment pods had not been located there. A containment loss was what most likely caused the ship's destruction, not that piece of debris hitting the nacelle or the collision itself.
------------------ "Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"
[This message has been edited by The_Evil_Lord (edited January 22, 2001).]
posted
All this talk of deflector dishes brings back something Picard said in First Contact to Lt. Hawk about using weapons on the deflector: It would blow the Enterprise-E in half! And the Odyssey did blow up in half...
As for the shields, anyone remember "Fury" when Kes tried to ram her ship into Voyager? It just bounced off.
And last, I doubt that a saucer separation manuver would have been an option for either the Oddyssey or the Yamato. The Odyssey may had power failure or not enough to successfully execute the manuver. The Yamato had that Iconian computer virus that may have disrupted all emergency procedures including warp core ejection protocols and saucer separation manuvers.
------------------ "Oh for fuck's sake, stop your moaning, If you fancy a threesome at this time of night, you can't get start getting choosey about which particular three! -Queer As Folk, UK
[This message has been edited by Michael_T (edited January 22, 2001).]
posted
Hey, people can thank me all they want. Working where I do, I'm starved for gratitude.
------------------ "Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."
posted
If Keogh was going to seperate the saucer, he should have done it BEFORE the Odyssey entered the wormhole.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
More importantly, why should they Odyssey have bothered with leaving the saucer behind at all? Saucer seperation has always been presented as a way to get all your "nonessential crew" out of a battle should the need arise. But the secondary hull doesn't appear to gain any tactical advantage just by being seperate. In fact, it's arguable that it loses out on the extra power and manuverability provided by the saucer. So, in the Odyssey's case, where there was a nice large space station standing by to accept those extra people, keeping the saucer was a good idea.
posted
Well, I think the original question was asked in this tone:
Why didn't Keogh evacuate to the saucer if the Jem'Hadar were going to ram them?
Well, the Odyssey got the tar kicked out of it pretty much from the get-go. BTW: did anyone notice that Keogh's XO's seat was to the captain's LEFT and not RIGHT (like on TNG?) Anyway, Keogh probably didn't think the ship was in that much trouble, and there probably wasn't that much warning that that J'H Bug Ship was going to ram the Odyssey ...
One of the Runabout crews (Bashir and Kira?) said, "they're making a run on the Odyssey!" and pursued, but I don't think any of them anticipated the collision course. Even O'Brien seemed surprised, and Sisko said that "they're willing to show us how far they'll go."
Oh, but anyway ... the Odyssey didn't last very long once the J'H smashed into 'em. A few seconds and then KABOOM! The ship was space-dust. I doubt Keogh had time to do much more than shit his pants before he became a couple billion tiny particles.
Frankly, Keogh being the arrogant bastard he seemed to be (old warhorse?), I think the real tragedy here was that Keogh didn't die sooner ...
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
It's strange that not one of the bugs was shot down. Fed-shields were incompatible with polaron beams at first, but the phasers should've worked. The Odyssey should've been able to take a bug out with two volleys. Of course, back then the bugs were mightier...
What exactly happened to the Yamato? I didn't see that ep. Or did someone refer to the japanese battleship?
------------------ Here lies a toppled god, His fall was not a small one. We did but build his pedestal, A narrow and a tall one.
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