Here are my WIP redraws of the Franz Joseph SFTM ships along side my Connie. I'm not completely happy with the ventral command hull on USS Federation, but I didn't want to have simple dorsoventral symmetry, as designed by FJ. The shuttle bay is below the fantail.
Comments welcome!
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Registered: Oct 1999
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I really like what you've done with both the Saladin and the Federation. I always thought that the deflector dish under the saucer sensor array on the Saladin looked strange, as did the shuttle bay position right above the forward deflector dish on the Federation. Very nice work, and good improvements over the original designs!
A couple of questions, though. Is that an extra nacelle cowling just aft of the dorsal warp nacelle pylon? And were the warp nacelles really that far aft on the original Connie? Just looks a little strange to me.
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Registered: Mar 1999
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I like these, too - as "upgrades" to canon designs if necessary, or as the "real thing" as opposed to Starfleet computer display simplifications if that's more to your liking.
The only thing I'm not happy with is the primary hull of the Federation. It's just too similar to the other two now. A bit more bulk, a few changes to the bridge area, perhaps a wee bit more "armor plate" texturing... This ship deserves to look different.
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Warped1701: As far as I know, there's nothing extra behind the dorsal pylon. The nacelle is the same as the one on the scout. The nacelle is basically the starboard nacelle from my top view Connie schematic. And yes, the Connie nacelles are that far back!
Timo: I agree that the primary hull looks quite a bit like the Connie hull. FJ's version had no rear cutout; just a continous curve from below the deflector to the front of the hull. Since the cutout is used on almost all Starfleet ships, I thought I should include it on Federation. I also added a slight incline to the dorsum (FJ had it straight), which adds to the resemblance. I also originally had no incline to the hull top or bottom, but I thought it looked rather severe. But, the main reason Federation looks like Constitution is because the front halves of their hulls are identical, with identical detailing at this point. I never liked the front of FJ's Federation, and I figured that Starfleet would still put the largest deflector they had on the front of the hull.
Well, this is why I show WIPs. I'll play with it a bit more.
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Registered: Oct 1999
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Umm, a slight misunderstanding. When I spoke of the primary hull, I meant the saucer, not the deflector-decorated cylinder. The former is fattened a bit, yes, but it could be more radically different, especially the bridge area. I'm happy with the latter, although perhaps the window patterns there could be altered to hide the remaining copy-paste nature...
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Timo: Oh, the primary hull! The flat thingy, you mean. I get numbers one and two mixed up a lot.
One thing I wanted to avoid was the bloated look of the FJ ship. The top and bottom of the PRIMARY hull were the same, with dull little sensor domes on top and no real bridge. I figured Starfleet might use the same bridge module in all their ships, so used it for this one. I'll see if I can add some movie style details to suggest development in that direction, but I still want to this to be a firmly TOS design.
Harry: I don't need to explain the dish. That's FJ's job. But, I suspect it must be a sensor dish, unless the ship has a few reverse gears. The observation dome might not actually be an observation dome. I always considered a beacon, that doesn't actually need to have clear line of sight rearward to function. But maybe I'll move it down to near the shuttle bay.
Registered: Oct 1999
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Overall, I think they look alright. However, I have some stuff to comment on about your work. Only trying to offer commentary and constructive criticism here, not personally attacking you or your work, so please keep that in mind.
Hermes (Scout): the "dish" serves as the sensor array in the SFTM. I always thought that the dome which supports the FJ version of the Saladin/Hermes design was still a planetary sensor array and wouldn't be impacted that much by the large sensor dish. I kind of liked where it was and think that you somewhat ruin the lines of the original design w/the somewhat bulky, tho have no alterative suggestion to solve your dislike of the original position. When you do the other views, are you going to add a shuttlebay to the bottom of the primary hull, as I've seen in several fan drawings? I also heard that FJ had intended for that to be the case, but didn't have the room to add the bottom view in his pages.
Federation (Dreadnought): While I agree that I never liked the shuttlebay being up front in the secondary hull (the "deflector-decorated cylinder" as Timo puts it), I also never liked that aft sensor array being where it was. I'd like to suggest you remove it and place the shuttlebay there. It would make the landing bay beacon be where it needs to be so that you don't have move to a new location, as already noted.
Also, I would like to suggest you move the dorsal warp nacelles orientation so that the flux chiller is pointing up instead of down. That way, it's pointing directly into open space, instead of at the hull. I know there's no canon basis for this, but I always thought that the reason it was done this way on the Constitution class in TOS, as well as by FJ in his designs, was to keep any "radiation" from being aimed directly at the ship.
Primary hull on the Fed was designed originally as larger and w/the bridge buried in the hull, presumably to enhance survivability on a warship. I also liked the idea that it was larger, personally. Made for a more impressive ship. And the dimensions also happen to come out to what was done for the Refit. Tho I do understand your design to keep the components mostly "off the shelf" - ala your comment about the bridge module. However, it looks somewhat odd w/the lower primary hull shaped as it is w/the upper hull the standard curvature.
Again, I like the work you've done here. Very nicely executed.
Thanks again for sharing with us.
Registered: Apr 2003
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I agree with Griffworks about the need for a larger diameter primary hull on the Federation; with that larger secondary hull, it looks a little unbalenced with a saucer the same ize as a Connies. As for the bridge module; I do like the more 'standard' appearance of the upper primary hull but perhaps a little armour might be appropriate? Not huge slabs or anything but perhaps just beef it up a little. The term Dreadnought does suggest a more combat oriented ship than the Constitutions appear to be. I wouldn't have it as a ship designed exclusively for combat but rather have a more lopsided combat to scientific systems ratio than the Connies.
The deflector dish housing on the Saladin is a vast improvement on the orignial IMHO.
Good work!!
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Registered: Feb 2002
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Mim: My main reason for redrawing/redesigning these ships is that the schematics in SFTM are sort of sketchy with inaccurate proportions and details. I want to keep the general layouts but make them more plausible where I can.
Griff: Hermes: The dish on a stick was one of the things I always hated about the Scout/Destroyer design. I have assumed that the concentric rings behind the dish are an integral part of the deflector machinery, so having a dish hanging like that seemed a bit weak to me. I probably won't do additional views, just side views. Federation: I've always liked the rear deflector! I liked it so much that I've used it on some of my own ships. I think it's a very distinctive feature of Federation and will not change it. I'm also like the machinery bits of the nacelles as much out of sight as possible, usually downward or inward. I think the ship looks cleaner that way, in keeping with Matt Jeffries' design principles.
Wraith: The more I look at the primary hull of my Federation, the more I like it, despite initial reservations. One of the main things I wanted to do was add a bit of detail and difference to the upper and lower halves and make them look less bloated. I still might make the disc thicker, but I think I will retain the bridge module.
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Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Masao: Griff: Hermes: The dish on a stick was one of the things I always hated about the Scout/Destroyer design. I have assumed that the concentric rings behind the dish are an integral part of the deflector machinery, so having a dish hanging like that seemed a bit weak to me. I probably won't do additional views, just side views.
I can respect that. However, I just reeeaaallly don't like the way you resolved it.
quote:Federation: I've always liked the rear deflector! I liked it so much that I've used it on some of my own ships. I think it's a very distinctive feature of Federation and will not change it. I'm also like the machinery bits of the nacelles as much out of sight as possible, usually downward or inward. I think the ship looks cleaner that way, in keeping with Matt Jeffries' design principles.
All due respect to Mr. Schnaubelt (FJ), but I never did like that dish on the ass-end of the Fed design. It just doesn't flow to me and looks... wrong.
quote:Wraith: The more I look at the primary hull of my Federation, the more I like it, despite initial reservations. One of the main things I wanted to do was add a bit of detail and difference to the upper and lower halves and make them look less bloated. I still might make the disc thicker, but I think I will retain the bridge module.
Oooh! Oooh! Mistah Kottah!
I got an idea. You could expand the diameter to the original proportions and add a B/C deck area that's a bit more like the "Phase II Enterprise" drawings protray it. Or, if you will, as the Tikopai class, as seen at Starship Schematic Database, in case you're not familiar w/what I'm talking about.
Just a thought....
Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: Federation (Dreadnought Also, I would like to suggest you move the dorsal warp nacelles orientation so that the flux chiller is pointing up instead of down. That way, it's pointing directly into open space, instead of at the hull. I know there's no canon basis for this, but I always thought that the reason it was done this way on the Constitution class in TOS, as well as by FJ in his designs, was to keep any "radiation" from being aimed directly at the ship.
I completely agree. The Control Reactor should be pointing into space and not aimed at the ship. The Federation is a uniquely designed vessel. I have never seen it rendered this way. How would a Surya Class Ship look with these type of modifications?
Registered: Oct 2002
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I for one LOVE your change to the Scout/Destroyer. If you WERE to do more views of any of these, might I advocate for that one? it is a significantly different look than available anywhere else and I'd love to see it fleshed out into full orthos!
Registered: Mar 2002
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