quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: ...Sharon/8 voted against lobotomizing the Cylons so Cavil and Co. found a different Sharon to vote with them, thus breaking the deadlock. Uh, how? Does each individual Cylon get a vote? Were there equal numbers of each model on the Basestar? No accounting for attrition?
If they were the case then logically the 8's & 6's should be in a minority to begin with since Caprica-6 and Athena are with the fleet. Perhaps having one 8 vote against the others somehow nullifies the vote. Although the models work with each other by democratic means, perhaps within the models themselves they must work by total harmonious consensus.
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: What good does it do to assassinate the Cavil Cabal (LOL)? They'll just get resurrected anyway. On top of that, aren't there more of these models on the Basestar or is it just chock-full of Centurions and Raiders?
I assume it's a coordinated strike since all the centurions are linked through the hybrid, so that accounts for at least one basetar. Resurrecting isn't instantaneous and takes a little time (especially when there's a backlog) so it will give the Six faction some time, perhaps to cold box them, or try too. Of course next comes the bit where the Three's get unboxed to break the deadlock. As for giving the Centurions freewill, someone has obviously forgotten what happened the last time they did that and why they were muzzled in the first place.
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Yeah, why are they going to use a freighter? Won't that draw more attention as a civilian ship is suddenly leaving the fleet for no reason. I mean will people buy the whole "They're going to look for minerals and stuff."? Oh yeah, then there's the fact that a Raptor is more suited for recon missions.
Depends how long term the mission will be. We know that Raptors have a limited range (when they don't have Cylon raider brains plugged in anyway) and can only carry a limited number of people. A larger ship is more sustainable and can lay in supplies for a much longer haul.
I liked the bit where Baltar met 6's Harvey/Baltar and we see his narcissism is shown to be alive and well. More evidence though, that there is a higher power manipulating both 6 and Baltar. Paradoxically though, it refers to head Six as either a separate person (so not the same entity) or he/it thinks he's talking about the actual Six and so may not be aware that she's been visiting him too. Though it seams doubtful.
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I like this idea that the final five must be individuals. That only makes sense. Many copies of Sixes and the rest floating around. Hard to keep the final five a secret if there were multiple copies of them.
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Dude... I just had this crazy realization while reading some synopses of previous episodes. Remember "Downloaded," when Caprica-Six, Boomer, and a Three are buried in the rubble and find Anders there, too? Three was about to shoot Anders when Six bashed her head in. Could Caprica somehow, subconsciously know that Anders is one of the Final Five?
But generally, the Cylons (...er, that is, the seven main models, I guess) have encountered each of the four while they were in their latent phase. All of them were on New Caprica, and I'm fairly certain we saw a scene where each of them met one of the Cylons (...er, the occupying Cylons�this is a pain!).
I wonder how long ago the writers came up with the idea of those characters turning out to be Cylons?
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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Could there be any significance to the fact that the Final Five includes Number Seven? I mean.. Number Eight is apparently an acceptable model (although it has produced a number of 'difficult' individuals, including Boomer that upset the vote), and assuming they numbered the models sequentially, it could mean the Final Five are really not significantly different in concept, but just had conflicting opinions (or rejected God).
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Dude... I just had this crazy realization while reading some synopses of previous episodes. Remember "Downloaded," when Caprica-Six, Boomer, and a Three are buried in the rubble and find Anders there, too? Three was about to shoot Anders when Six bashed her head in. Could Caprica somehow, subconsciously know that Anders is one of the Final Five?
But generally, the Cylons (...er, that is, the seven main models, I guess) have encountered each of the four while they were in their latent phase. All of them were on New Caprica, and I'm fairly certain we saw a scene where each of them met one of the Cylons (...er, the occupying Cylons�this is a pain!).
I wonder how long ago the writers came up with the idea of those characters turning out to be Cylons?
Perhaps that's why D'Anna apologised to one of the Five in the temple...or was that a different three? I do wonder to what extent the individuals of a certain model are individual since we know Athena has all of Boomer's memories up until she left Helo on Caprica. Of course that seams to be a topic they're about to explore.
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: If the final five exist only as individuals, they might also be unable to resurrect.
Of course the five can't resurrect, they don't have a resurrection ship! Unless all the ships are built with a secret compartment only the Centurions can go...I wonder if the r-ships have hybrids running them too?
One thing I noticed, the number one spoke of "the programmers" as if they're not exactly sure who they are or what their motives were. Makes you wonder if the five were the original programmers. As for the significance of the numbering order, notice that the oldest looking model is number one and the youngest is number eight...perhaps, assuming the four of the five we know of created the others, numbering them one through eight and for whatever reason programmed them all save number seven not to think about them and took seven with them back to the colonies? To use a jigsaw analogy we have a corner, some side and a bit of the sky but still can't figure out where the green wibbly ones go...
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I dunno; I find it highly unlikely that the Cylons would somehow make sure that there was EXACTLY the same number of individuals across each of the six (seven) models. Considering that they're in what amounts to a war, even with resurrection it would be difficult to ensure that there were constantly the exact same number of individuals for each model.
Somehow, I expect that they're using something akin to the US electoral system (which actually explains why it's so frakked up). As in, there's a democratic vote among each of the model's individuals, but each model gets one vote. I'm not quite sure how that explains Boomer, though.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Perhaps that's why D'Anna apologised to one of the Five in the temple...or was that a different three? I do wonder to what extent the individuals of a certain model are individual since we know Athena has all of Boomer's memories up until she left Helo on Caprica. Of course that seams to be a topic they're about to explore.
Oh, right! That makes perfect sense to explain the apology.
As far as the Threes, did they ever call the Three that Baltar associated with D'Anna? I'm not sure they did, in which case it'd be more likely that the Three that we saw so much of was the one who had her skull bashed in on Caprica. (Which was mentioned at one point, not exactly too fondly.) But the shared-memories thing would make some sense, too.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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I doubt that they have the same shared collective memories like say the Borg. Though when Athena had Helo blow her away to rescue Hera, Roslin was worried that the Cylons would know everything Athena would know about the Fleet when she downloaded into a Resurrection Ship. Perhaps a back up memory copy is made of Cylons going back to the Resurrection Ship for future analysis/intel... that is unless Caprica-Six deleted Athena's memory backup when she downloaded aboard to rescue her daughter.
And I always assumed that the Three we saw for most of Season 3 was D'Anna unless it was that movie theater version we saw in Final Cut. If that were the case, what happened to D'Anna then?
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
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I didn't mean that as an exact mathematical depiction of what happened in the voting, more a metaphorical one. All members of a model count as one, regardless of how many there are when compared with other models. But as soon as the vote of one model was split, that was a net gain for the Lobotomy Party and a net loss for the Sentience Party. Looked at another way, splitting the 8 vote could be construed as abstaining, making the result three to two with one abstention.
quote:Originally posted by Mikey T: I doubt that they have the same shared collective memories like say the Borg. Though when Athena had Helo blow her away to rescue Hera, Roslin was worried that the Cylons would know everything Athena would know about the Fleet when she downloaded into a Resurrection Ship. Perhaps a back up memory copy is made of Cylons going back to the Resurrection Ship for future analysis/intel... that is unless Caprica-Six deleted Athena's memory backup when she downloaded aboard to rescue her daughter.
And I always assumed that the Three we saw for most of Season 3 was D'Anna unless it was that movie theater version we saw in Final Cut. If that were the case, what happened to D'Anna then?
Well until the Cylons arrived on New Caprica, D'anna was presumably still undercover, so the one on Old Caprica had to have been a different individual.
As for memory sharing, I'm pretty sure Athena said "it doesn't work like that" so if Cylon's can't forcibly extract memory then it must be voluntary and not in a Borg collective way, more like a periodic synchronisation within each model and only with the same model. If they Sync extends to all members of the model is debatable, so far all we know for certain is that it's on a one-to-one basis. One assumes Boomer's sleeper program (what ever happened to that personality anyway?) did the memory sync some point after she left Caprica.
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I didn't mean that as an exact mathematical depiction of what happened in the voting, more a metaphorical one. All members of a model count as one, regardless of how many there are when compared with other models. But as soon as the vote of one model was split, that was a net gain for the Lobotomy Party and a net loss for the Sentience Party. Looked at another way, splitting the 8 vote could be construed as abstaining, making the result three to two with one abstention.
That's pretty much what I said at the top of the page mate.
quote:Originally posted by Mikey T: I doubt that they have the same shared collective memories like say the Borg. Though when Athena had Helo blow her away to rescue Hera, Roslin was worried that the Cylons would know everything Athena would know about the Fleet when she downloaded into a Resurrection Ship.
I don't remember if I mentioned this during that episode or not, but Roslyn's worries/concerns was stupid. OK, not stupid in itself but she only brought it up because of that specific situation. Sharon's a combat officer and faced death on a regular basis. If the President or Adama was concerned about Sharon's memories and tactical information falling into the wrong hands if she was killed then they should have pulled her off of active combat duty.
Not to mention all the other Cylon models that have had free reign through the Galactica and Fleet at one time or another. (Cavil?, D'anna, Six, Sharon, Leoben, Doral)
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