Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Ladies & gentlemen, I come before you to discuss a grievous error perpetrated on the members of Flare Sci-Fi Forums & by the members of Flare Sci-Fi Forums. Flare is dying. We who comprise it are the cause of its death.
I have been a member here for 6 years & 1 month. In that time, I have seen very little change here. There has been 1 layout redesign, a few bells & whistles added. I have seen the folding of 2 forums--DS9 & Voyager--& the creation & folding of a third, Enterprise. I have taken part in the UP3 project & watched that fall asunder as well. And I have seen the same names & faces for the past 6 years. The same people, the same elite little club. In 6 years, I have been personally responsible for bringing in a total of TWO new members, Snay & Jason. TWO, in SIX YEARS.
This board has become like a big convention of Jews. No joke; Judaism is like a country club. While other religions actively encourage conversions, Judaism actively DIScourages conversion. "You want to be a Jew? Well, we don't want you!" They make your life HELLISH when you convert, & if you still make it, you're scrutinized EXTRA closely. I'm a Jew-by-heritage, but if it was Yom Kippur, I could pull the whole Jon Stewart "Fuck it, it's 2 PM, it's cloudy, I'm having a sammich" & get away with it. If my friend Julia--who converted--did it, she'd have to go before a rabbinical council or something. And that's how Flare is.
We're not the fucking Masons; we're a goddamned sci-fi board!
Flare needs to change. It needs to change with the times or it will die. There needs to be changes in the way the board is managed & changes in the actions & attitudes of the members. I have discussed this with an unnamed moderator & he agrees greatly with me.
In terms of the structure of the site itself & the forums, a severe transformation is needed. For quite sometime, many have been clamoring for new forums. The general opposing argument has been that because there is no discussion on it now, a forum is pointless. But I am of the opinion�as are many--that if a forum exists for something, it will invite discussion. General design is nice, but sometimes it's like genreing all your music as "Music"...or books by hardcover & paperback. My proposed restructuring is as follows:
General Sci-fi, Star Wars, & Trek should all be one category. Not one forum, but one category. Call it "Discussion" or something similar that implies that these are the areas for discussion of shows.
Reset & perhaps rename General Sci-Fi so that's it's more inviting. Imply more SG:1, DW, & the like if these are not to get their own forums (also filed under �Discussion�).
A separate forum for anime, perfect for Mark Nguyen. Perhaps another forum for supers & gamers.
DAC and S&T go into another category. This will be our "Category of Production," whatever the name is. Artwork, webstuff, meshes.
A possible forum for this section could be an RPG element. Remember when Mark ran the �You�re The Admiral� threads? They were fun & so many of us participated. I recently found my own scenes for the Driian campaign & fondly remembered the week of planning I did to come up with my invasion. Although I prefer playing those, I would enjoy running it just as much. Perhaps a round-robin system where the �winner� of one writes the next one could be instituted. On the same level, variants could be introduced for Star Wars, SG:1 (�You�re The Colonel/General�) & maybe even Firefly (�You�re The Smuggler�). These �games would be contained in this forum.
A separate forum for �forum projects.� I've got a lot of idea that would be fucking AWESOME to get people in on�designing a viable Federation Charter, histories of Starfleet, that sort of thing. Yes, this smacks of the floundering of UP3, but in the case of UP3, there was too much nebulosity, a lack of set goals, & no interior synchronicity. (In fact, I think I�m the only one who made sure that his article meshed with others) I know that personally, I'd run a far tighter ship than anyone else did with UP3. I would like to see more collaborative member projects.
After that comes the Community category. Keep the Officers� Lounge & the Flameboard, perhaps renaming that the Poli Sci Tavern or something to more accurately reflect its partisan nature. Hell, call it Congress.
Dispose of the Forum Competitions forum. Turn it into a comedy forum & we can redirect all the funny to there.
With this site restructuring, there needs to be better management. We have moderators but they don�t really spur anything, do they? Look through the regulars & get people to moderate who will DO IT. Get people who will be respected & don't just assign willy-nilly. Make the mods people who fit the areas. For example, I would move Krenim to Comedy & put Irishman in DAC.
I understand that things are difficult & that Charles seems to be going the way of Howard Hughes. With that in mind I suggest he appoint an executive manager or council or something & then he can be emeritized to the figurehead post of Dear Leader or some such. He would retain final control, layout design, & the like, but daily & administrative operations could be passed alone to those of us who are here on a regular basis
The User Agreement needs to be rewritten, severely. And it should be more accessible at all times; it took me an hour of searching to finally find the link to it. There should definitely be something like a new user entry guide forum post. This post should help the new member be aware of the environment they are entering. Simply saying "we're more tolerant of older members than newer ones" doesn't wash the change in China. Perhaps there could be short introductions to some of the regular members & their personalities. That way, the new member knows that Lee is snarky, Simon is cerebral, and Siegfried is a jokester & unofficial �Flare historian�. That they know that UM is out there on his own level, that I�m a jackass, that Timo is incredibly egalitarian. Post examples of "correct" & "incorrect" posts, thus preventing the usual schmutz we get from the intrepid types who've wandered in & were the chummy types...& I mean "chummy" in the Jaws sense.
Which leads to the final change: the change of ourselves & our attitudes. We're a pretty tight-knit community and the "n00b hazing" seems to pretty much turn into "We don't want anyone new here, go away." It�s depressing. I don't tell ANYone I know about Flare anymore because there's no point. I know that others would like to bring new blood but are afraid to. I know that I could bring WOMEN into the board. WOMEN! But these people are usually casual sci-fi fans & I know they'd not feel welcome in the casual areas.
There's a quote from Jason 16 months ago in the thread about the last UA change. The quote fits:
quote:"I think of Flare as a 1920's gentleman's club that's full of the top minds in sci-fi jackassery. That's not to say that we don�t love our female members- though they could be meaner- I'm just drawing an elitist comparison. Or, we are the strange deep-sea fish of the internet- all glowy appendages and long sharp teeth. Older members can take the pressure while some new members are crushed to pulp and carried away by the currents...."
That is the best & most accurate assessment of this board�s membership I have ever seen.
I bet if we asked around...a lot of people feel the same. That they love it, but are afraid to bring in new people. I know we could pluck from Trek BBS (I've never been there). Jason is still on the Starship Modeler boards & I'm not. I have a lot of friends on Livejournal who are sci-fi & anime fans. I would like to make a Livejournal post & invite people to Flare. I would. But I can't. They'd be disgusted. Half the time, I�m disgusted, & that�s saying something. We don't have to stop being snarky. We just need to be more inviting, in design, structure, & nature. It�s difficult to do, I understand that. We're comfortable in our ways and don't want to put the effort into accepting new people. But it�s now gone beyond that. Now we're actively discouraging people from joining.
We don�t need to be looking for people who have hard-ons for technology or small blurry shots of starship in the background. Most people are causal fans. I think we all have people who'd fit in on a casual level. We don't have to have people who live & campout in S&T. I mean, really�when was the last time you saw Liz there? I don't think I've EVER seen her there & she�s one of our favorites here. Of course, that might be because she also has breasts, but I�m willing to give the benefit of the doubt. We should promote but not spam. We can encourage people we know who would fit in well, who are maybe a little snarky themselves to join us. I know I can find more than a few: one girl on my LJ friends list is a massive X-files fan. Another has listed among his 150 LJ interests comic books, cyberpunk, earthships, grokking, Harry Turtledove, Neil Gaiman, Red Dwarf, Robert Heinlein, science fiction, The Fifth Element, The Matrix, & Valentine Michael Smith. That gent is exceedingly intelligent & I think he�d be a bang-up member here.
I love Flare. I do. I don't go to any other board but it. But I feel like a member of the He-Man Woman-Haters Club during the FemLib movement. I feel like the guys who said to close the Patent Office because everything that could conceivably be invented had been. And...that's not shiny. I encourage you to take all of this under consideration & actively try to rejuvenate & revitalize Flare. I really don�t want to see it die, & I don�t think you do either.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I am disappointed with you Shik, you left out the leek.
Your reference to Turtledove, while a good writer, brings to mind the fact that I didn't really enjoy his books.
Now, to be on topic. Yep, we are elitists alright, although we've admitted that a lot in the past.
Doing something different may bring life in here. No offense to those sick people, but that is the longest current topic. As far as Trek goes, it is floundering from us, sad as that is TPTB seem to be at a loss on ideas, execpt that the books are probably being written like mad. The second most posted items are anything insulting Bush.
Dukhat and Snay have both started separate series for Trek, good stuff to me. Who else knew, and those that did, who has read any of their work?
Creating a new universe, starting with the near future and working our way forward to some reasonably far future may be an interesting project. Keeping interest, and having the time, are the biggest problems. We have the entire group of people needed to create a universe from scratch, no reason we couldn't, or shouldn't for that matter. We could build the continuity into it, for everything. No prequel E being more advanced looking just because it can be due to current modern technology.
As far as CC and the Mods go, how do you beat a dead horse? Other than the Trek book section there isn't anthing new, just the same blurry screen caps. I guess we could go frame by frame for every episode, but why? UP3 died, time was a big consideration for me, for the others, I don't know. With TPTB at Paramount not feeding us how do we survive?
Would anyone's interest be sparked by creating something completely new, or as completely new as possible? Does anyone have the time to do so?
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
HA! I blame Shik for anything offensive I've posted! Besides, someone pointed out that you'd linked in pics of my models and then I joined up to discuss them.
Hmm..while he definitely brings up some good points, a lot of our "attitude" is defensive from all the spamming and the occasional TOTAL nutjob we've had sign up. While we've not attracted many recent... what might be called "core members", we have brought on may creative, insanely talented people that do return here as a sort of "serious" forum for their designs (Irishman, MattC, etc.) that would likely eshew a place like Subspace Comms, where every six-year old with a crayon can rail away at a design with nothing constructive to say.
We've become the net's best kept secret....maybe too secret though.
Maybe we can bill ourselves as an 18 year old and over environment for unique fans or something...I'd avoid the word "adult" for obvious reasons.
As to recruiting new members, I find that Flare is where I can really be myself without offending mods or the conservative views of other board's members. I've brought over a few (Griffworks comes to mind) that did not mesh too well with our eclectic group and were even suprised to see me when not on "best behavior" mode.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Does Flare need to change? Probably. Am I interested in how it changes? Not really. I've gone through many frames of mind during my membership. I've spent too much time here and resented it. Now I just view it as some place to browse to during quiet moments at work, or in between doing other stuff at home.
Any changes should be democratically agreed on by the membership, after all we make the place what it is. If a vote is called, I would probably vote for change, but abstain on what changes should be made. If I don't feel interested in the new direction, I'll simply visit less and less until one day I don't log on at all. And perhaps that's for the best, after all, Moses was barred from entering the Holy Land. . . 8)
I'm off on holiday for two weeks. Be interesting to see what's been agreed on (if anything) when I get back.
posted
So YOU'RE the one we can blame for Snay's initial appearance around Flare *shakes head* All of these years, I've wondered who to blame....
OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!!
(kidding, I love Snay as much as I love ice cream - and that's a lot! It's my favorite food group!)
As to changes, I pretty much only post in the Officer's Lounge, and SOMETIMES in the Flameboard, so I'm not the best to ask about this mass overhaul you are proposing.... sorry, dude. But good luck with your venture!
~LOA
-------------------- "You are anal twattypoo who has ruined my good mood" PsyLiam to TSN May 01,2006.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I may not post often, but it's not because I think Flare is dying (not that I think it is). Although I'm an admin at Subspace Comms and post there more than here, I wouldn't want this place to turn into SCN. Yeah we not be the most welcoming to newbies, but it's not like new members are discouraged either. As long as they can get past the several layers of sarcasm and smart ass remarks.
-------------------- I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.
Registered: May 1999
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quote:As long as they can get past the several layers of sarcasm and smart ass remarks. [/QB]
They can be very thick layers though.
It isn't that Flare is losing life, so much as Trek seems to be. Redoing TOS, probably to make ENT more acceptable, just seems lame.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
But it's not "Flare Star Trek Forums," Ritten. It's Flare SCI-FI Forums, & I think we lose that emphasis.
I am not a person who automatically jumps at anything sci-fi. I'm not a fan of The Matrix (great concept, poor execution, bad hero casting, overreliance on VFX). I don't read much modern written sci-fi because they get too caught up in the alien window dressing & often lose touch with the plot & the readers. But there are tons of things that I know would be great fodder for discussion.
I've had some amazing conversations with people such as Sieggy, Topher, & Jonah all outside Flare. About Trek, about sci-fi, about realspace, about things that are even tangentially related. Last night, Topher & I were talking about Masao's new freighter/liner designs & that got us onto whether Pan Am would still be relevant in the 23rd century. Jonah & I are both huge Heinlein fans & have had lengthy discussion via IM about how his ideals & concepts could, would, & perhaps should impact modern society.
I miss coming here with ideas. I miss having reception to those ideas, regardless of pro or con. It sucks that I don't feel comfortable bringing friends here. Another longtime member here has mentioned that "there's a contingent at Flare that's too hung up on being elitist, superior, and bullying newbies. They'll never change. And [the] plan is doomed because they will not change." I'm enough of an elitist asswad in real life; I don't need to be as much of one on "teh intarweb." As far as the "several layers of sarcasm and smart ass remarks" goes....every board has that. But here, it's more along the lines of "OH! You wish to join US?? How DARE you! You are a mere puny scrap of a person while WE are forum GODS!" FEH.
He's probably right: this is doomed. Stirring up shit at Flare is like trying to make a molasses-&-concrete mousse. But I had to try.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I agree with what the name is, but, the ebb and flow is very much tied to Trek. From Behaviour, when I lurked about, onwards UP was the main, almost, only thing. Such is the way of life.
I don't think any new project is doomed, depending on how you can deal with digging through the layers of sarcastic, and sarcaustic, whit to see the point being made. Sometimes there isn't, but every once in a while something comes through.
"But I had to try."
Your giving up?
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Not giving up. Just stating.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I don't care whether Flare survives or not. I'll miss it were it to go, but you can't say we haven't had a good innings.
But I'm going to take issue with the notion that the old guard are institutionally "elitist, superior and (prone to) bullying newbies." We're not. I can't speak for others, but I don't feel Flare is superior to other Forums; I suppose the charge of elitism has merit, in that we like it here and we know what kind of person we like here; and as for bullying newbs, well, I never set out to, it just happened - usually because the newbs are twats.
And twats they were. You say you don't want to introduce like-minded people here because you think they'll get a rough reception. Very few of us now remain from the pre-Flare EnterForums, and the rest of you were all newbies at one time or other. You can't all have been bullied.
quote:Originally posted by Lee: ... and the rest of you were all newbies at one time or other. You can't all have been bullied.
The gene pool was low so you needed new blood. 8)
When comparing the size of the two forums I visit the most they are roughly the same size, and Flare's age is far greater. I have lurked here longer than the other site has been up and running. To my knowledge they have the same advertising budget, nothing.
I think you make a good point for Shik, on not really caring as you fade to gray on the board, whereas he's making a push to make the place more lively, energetic, active.
Possibly the definition of a flare twat needs to be adjusted. Maybe instead of giving the 'twats' a full welcome we could make constructive remarks? Nah, too much to ask on it.
Take Robert Eggleton for example, while his approach was rough we didn't say, hey, post a bit of it so we know what the hell your talking about. No, we slammed away as usual.
As an addon to Shik's idea, create a slef promoting thread for authors to show us what they've got, post a chapter and let us discuss it.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Hmm, I'd like a music section... but having said that - I love this forum because it DOESN'T have fifty gajillion sub-forums. I HATE that. People read those forums that are busy - not the obscure ones with like 3 posts for really specific topics. That's what posts and threads are for.
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