Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
*grumbles* agreed. in principle, at least. (cause i do like the abstract idea of being able to do that, but i can still see little timmy, being lost in the woods getting nailed by a stray bullet...
posted
I'd asume all reasonable precautions are taken (fenced in property, a clear view of the entire range and a good backstop, like the hill in front of which all the targets are set).
But yeah...it's always a risk you face.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I've been thinking about getting a FOID card myself. Police don't prevent crimes, they come in afterwards to photograph the bodies....
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quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: I've been thinking about getting a FOID card myself. Police don't prevent crimes, they come in afterwards to photograph the bodies....
Nonsense- police stop a huge number of potential crimes every day and we never hear about it- every traffic stop that finds unregistered weapons is a violent crime prevented- every drug seizure may spare dozens of fatalities.
Police are not perfect and I'm certainly a critic of unchecked police power, but they really do cast a wide net that nabs many strange and dangerous things.
If you're looking to carry a gun, you should ask yuorself weither you really need it to feel safe some people do need one-(dangerous jobs, dangerous neighborhoods, etc.)- most dont.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Just having one in the bedside table isn't going overboard. Why shouldn't I have one? It's my right, isn't it? Besides, just because the police do stop a lot of crime isn't really an argument that you should trust them completely with your own personal safety, every time.
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
ok, some questions before you get a gun.
1) are you familiar with:
Gun safety? Qualified and/or authorised by law (felons can never get a gun licence i think)? Your state laws on self-defence, with the use of firearms in your home/on your property? Your state laws on self-defence, with the use of firearms when NOT in your home/on your property?
2) Do you have children:
do you have a safe location for storage that is both accessable to you in a emergency but still relatively safe from the reach of children?
a good bad guy's lawyer could still try to fuck you, if your still somehow in the wrong. so bone up on all your required reading.... and thats just what i understand or have heard mentioned in media for the states. im not even sure for any other part of the world...
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Just having one in the bedside table isn't going overboard. Why shouldn't I have one? It's my right, isn't it? Besides, just because the police do stop a lot of crime isn't really an argument that you should trust them completely with your own personal safety, every time.
That's certainly your call- I'm all for personal responsibility when one's safety is concerned- I'm only asking you to examine why you'd need one. If you feel you have more security and are safer with a gun, then by all means take a gun safety course and buy a gun.
But if it's just some fantasy of stopping bad guys like in the movies, or just think "Guns R Fun" like the tool in the linked video, I'd advise against it.
Either way, I think you'd be both safer and more personally secure with a self defense course, possibly followed up with some martial arts.
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I don't fantasize about shooting guns at bad guys. I'm pretty sure I'd vomit if I had to shoot an intruder. But at least I'd be ok. And of course I'd be concerned with gun safety...it's a machine designed to kill
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posted
Sounds like you'd be happier spending several hundred dollars elsewhere. Dance lessons, prehaps.
Women prefer men that can dance to those packing heat.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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But if it's just some fantasy of stopping bad guys like in the movies, or just think "Guns R Fun" like the tool in the linked video, I'd advise against it.
Either way, I think you'd be both safer and more personally secure with a self defense course, possibly followed up with some martial arts. [/QB]
I'd say that the fact that guns are fun is reason enough to own a gun. I hope never to have to shoot anything other than a tin can or paper target, but I still get a lot of enjoyment out of owning and shooting the firearms and air rifles that I own. When I'm of age to go through with a pistol permit, I will. Not only because I would like to carry (no, I don't live in a dangerous place, nor am I planning to be a cop. But it's my right, so I am going to.), but because the few times I have been to a range to shoot pistol, I enjoyed it. It was fun.
In the self defense role, I have no delusions about shooting bad guy...I hope I never have to. But, I'd rather carry a gun and never, ever need it than one day find myself in a situation where I'd be able to say, "Shit, I wish I had my gun", and not have it. A gun is a tool. It's the same reason I carry a knife, really. It's a valuable tool capable of cutting, slicing, dicing, and just about every other task you want to put it to. I have no intention of ver stabbing an attacker (and I'd be worse off than if I had a gun, because knife fighting takes more skill than close range pistol work), but some of the knives I carry are more than capable of being pressed into a self defense role. I never purchase or carry a knife specifically for that reason though.
As for the argument that the police stop a ton of crime, yes, they do. I thank them for that. However, if some nut opens fire on a crowd of people in the mall I'm shopping at, and I happen to be armed, am I going to let that guy kill X number of people while I wait for the cops to get there? I wouldn't feel right about that. I would rather put my gun to good use, consequences of law be damned, than let people die.
The appreciation of guns is twofold, in my eyes. There's the practical value they hold, as a tool for self defense and hunting, etc, and then there's the collect-ability , same as stamps, basically. Some find guns to be beautiful works of art, worthy of a place in their safe. In owning an 1873 Colt Peacemaker, you're owning a bit of history. So if Greg (the man in the video) is a nut, than I am too.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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But if it's just some fantasy of stopping bad guys like in the movies, or just think "Guns R Fun" like the tool in the linked video, I'd advise against it.
Either way, I think you'd be both safer and more personally secure with a self defense course, possibly followed up with some martial arts.
I'd say that the fact that guns are fun is reason enough to own a gun. I hope never to have to shoot anything other than a tin can or paper target, but I still get a lot of enjoyment out of owning and shooting the firearms and air rifles that I own. When I'm of age to go through with a pistol permit, I will. Not only because I would like to carry (no, I don't live in a dangerous place, nor am I planning to be a cop. But it's my right, so I am going to.), but because the few times I have been to a range to shoot pistol, I enjoyed it. It was fun.
I see nothing wrong with that- act responsibly with your firearms and it's all good. I like hitting the range on occasion myself (though I dont feel the need to own one- I just rent one of the range's .45's).
quote: In the self defense role, I have no delusions about shooting bad guy...I hope I never have to. But, I'd rather carry a gun and never, ever need it than one day find myself in a situation where I'd be able to say, "Shit, I wish I had my gun", and not have it. A gun is a tool. It's the same reason I carry a knife, really. It's a valuable tool capable of cutting, slicing, dicing, and just about every other task you want to put it to. I have no intention of ever stabbing an attacker (and I'd be worse off than if I had a gun, because knife fighting takes more skill than close range pistol work), but some of the knives I carry are more than capable of being pressed into a self defense role. I never purchase or carry a knife specifically for that reason though.
See, that's where we differ- A gun is NOT a tool. It's sole use is as a killing weapon, whereas a knife has many uses- and self defense is the very least likely of those. I carry a knife every day and use it almost every day- and I've never needed it for self defense.
quote: As for the argument that the police stop a ton of crime, yes, they do. I thank them for that. However, if some nut opens fire on a crowd of people in the mall I'm shopping at, and I happen to be armed, am I going to let that guy kill X number of people while I wait for the cops to get there? I wouldn't feel right about that. I would rather put my gun to good use, consequences of law be damned, than let people die.
That's he myth the NRA is pushing these days- that gun rampages can be prevented or curtailed y everyone packing heat. It's never ever happened, and police are very strongly opposed to people getting into a shootout in public places- even police officers, trained for such situations, occasionally miss and hit civillians. In a virginia Tech type of situation, where there are conflicting reports of how many shooters there are and where they are, a civillian is as likely to be targeted by police- and to cause more panic than to be of real assistance.
quote: The appreciation of guns is twofold, in my eyes. There's the practical value they hold, as a tool for self defense and hunting, etc, and then there's the collect-ability , same as stamps, basically. Some find guns to be beautiful works of art, worthy of a place in their safe. In owning an 1873 Colt Peacemaker, you're owning a bit of history. So if Greg (the man in the video) is a nut, than I am too. [/QB]
An 1873 Colt Peacemaker (assuming you can afford such a thing) is a far cry from owning a modern arsenal though- an antique tends to apreceate in value (because of it's rairity) while today's mass-produced guns will not.
You viewpoints are valid, though I dont share them in general, but then you're not the type of gun owner that I detest either- the guy with dozens of guns- usually unsecured- that feels A) The Government is coimg to take his precious guns away and needs to stockpile and B) that having an arsenal somehow makes him more free.
Those are what I'd deem "Gun Nuts".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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But if it's just some fantasy of stopping bad guys like in the movies, or just think "Guns R Fun" like the tool in the linked video, I'd advise against it.
Either way, I think you'd be both safer and more personally secure with a self defense course, possibly followed up with some martial arts.
I'd say that the fact that guns are fun is reason enough to own a gun. I hope never to have to shoot anything other than a tin can or paper target, but I still get a lot of enjoyment out of owning and shooting the firearms and air rifles that I own. When I'm of age to go through with a pistol permit, I will. Not only because I would like to carry (no, I don't live in a dangerous place, nor am I planning to be a cop. But it's my right, so I am going to.), but because the few times I have been to a range to shoot pistol, I enjoyed it. It was fun.
I see nothing wrong with that- act responsibly with your firearms and it's all good. I like hitting the range on occasion myself (though I dont feel the need to own one- I just rent one of the range's .45's).
quote: In the self defense role, I have no delusions about shooting bad guy...I hope I never have to. But, I'd rather carry a gun and never, ever need it than one day find myself in a situation where I'd be able to say, "Shit, I wish I had my gun", and not have it. A gun is a tool. It's the same reason I carry a knife, really. It's a valuable tool capable of cutting, slicing, dicing, and just about every other task you want to put it to. I have no intention of ever stabbing an attacker (and I'd be worse off than if I had a gun, because knife fighting takes more skill than close range pistol work), but some of the knives I carry are more than capable of being pressed into a self defense role. I never purchase or carry a knife specifically for that reason though.
See, that's where we differ- A gun is NOT a tool. It's sole use is as a killing weapon, whereas a knife has many uses- and self defense is the very least likely of those. I carry a knife every day and use it almost every day- and I've never needed it for self defense.
quote: As for the argument that the police stop a ton of crime, yes, they do. I thank them for that. However, if some nut opens fire on a crowd of people in the mall I'm shopping at, and I happen to be armed, am I going to let that guy kill X number of people while I wait for the cops to get there? I wouldn't feel right about that. I would rather put my gun to good use, consequences of law be damned, than let people die.
That's he myth the NRA is pushing these days- that gun rampages can be prevented or curtailed by everyone packing heat. It's never ever happened, and police are very strongly opposed to people getting into a shootout in public places- even police officers, trained for such situations, occasionally miss and hit civillians. In a virginia Tech type of situation, where there are conflicting reports of how many shooters there are and where they are, a civillian is as likely to be targeted by police- and to cause more panic than to be of real assistance. Really, it's amazing how opposed police assiciations are to almost everything the NRA is trying to do leglislation-wise. here in south Florida, cops now have to drive around with assualt rifiles in their cars- a direct result of the assualt weapons ba being lifted (which police groups also were against).
quote: The appreciation of guns is twofold, in my eyes. There's the practical value they hold, as a tool for self defense and hunting, etc, and then there's the collect-ability , same as stamps, basically. Some find guns to be beautiful works of art, worthy of a place in their safe. In owning an 1873 Colt Peacemaker, you're owning a bit of history. So if Greg (the man in the video) is a nut, than I am too.
An 1873 Colt Peacemaker (assuming you can afford such a thing) is a far cry from owning a modern arsenal though- an antique tends to apreceate in value (because of it's rairity) while today's mass-produced guns will not.
You viewpoints are valid, though I dont share them in general, but then you're not the type of gun owner that I detest either- the guy with dozens of guns- usually unsecured- that feels A) The Government is coimg to take his precious guns away and needs to stockpile and B) that having an arsenal somehow makes him more free.
Those are what I'd deem "Gun Nuts".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
^And I agree completely. I personally plan to own a wide selection of guns someday, but I have no delusions that the government is coming to take away "arsenal". Hopefully, society will never let that happen. And I will always keep my guns secure. It's dumb not to.
I would argue though, that a gun is a tool. Ask any frontiersman 150 years ago, and he'd tell you that his gun is a tool, not a weapon. Yes, it is perfectly valid for self defense, but the primary purpose of a gun was to provide food. In that use, it is a tool. People still use guns for that reason to this day. Knives and guns really only seem to be classified as a weapon when used against humans. But so are other tools. A screwdriver is a tool until I shove it into someone's gut. Maybe it has to do with how a person is exposed to them. If you're raised with the idea that a gun is only used by criminals and cops, then it's a weapon. But I was introduced to guns as tools for hunting, and trained with them under that ideal, and only later accepted that they were also a tool I could use in my own defense if necessary. So I see them as a tool first, and a weapon second. Just a different frame of mind, I guess.
I even see a modern gun as a work of art. Hard to explain, but there's a certain beauty to most guns, regardless of age (and I should have been more specific when I referenced the peacemaker...modern replicas are available, and they are no more functional in today's modern society than the older ones are. Just as beautiful though). I treat my knives with the same attitude. My finely crafted Buck stockmans are just as beautiful as my more modern Spyderco knives. They are beautiful in their own way,
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
sean, guns are machines designed to kill or main what you shot at. its a ranged, projectile firing machine, in the same catagory as throwing spears, axes, bows & crossbows. an axe could also be classified as a tool, as it can be used in mundain ways (chopping wood).
a gun, on the other hand, can never be classified as a tool becuase it was not made to be a tool. it can be used for hunting, yes, but never will you use a gun as a hammer, will you?
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