posted
It seems bizarre, I'm no fan of Dubya, but even I'd agree that the President should hardly have to dump his schedule because of one airline disaster. The chronology goes some way to establishing at what time the FAA, NORAD, whoever knew that at least one hijacking had taken place - the question remains as to exactly how much was then communicated to the White House.
posted
But the point is that he stayed in the classroom after being told about the second crash. Supposedly, the exact words whispered in his ear were "America is under attack". And yet, apparently, that didn't warrant getting up and saying "I'm sorry, children, but something very important has come up, and I'm afraid I need to go do something presidential now".
"So....he did NOt intend to make a 'political movie' but DID intend to go after Bush?"
Sounds to me like he said he did intend to make a political movie. He just feels the emphasis is on the "movie" part, more than the "political" part.
"Actually drugs were involved in the childs shooting..."
What I meant was that the shooting wasn't part of a drug deal, or because the child was taking drugs, or anything like that. I mean, if you want to look at it that way, probably most of the guns involved in crimes in this country are, in some way, connected to drugs somewhere. But that doesn't make the shootings drug-related.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Call me an irrational alarmist, but I think the president can dump a grade-school reading period, or other photo ops for that matter, if even a single plane crashes into a World Trade Center tower.
It's kind of an important event.
Or at least delay the time with the kids until he knows for certain that it was just a bad pilot and not an act of terrorism.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Aargh! Why are you making me sound like I'm defending the moronic little cunt? They thought the Columbia disaster was an act of terrorism!
For me there's the bigger picture. What did they know, when? What was communicated to the Presidential entourage? What did the Chief-of-Staff actually say to Bush? I just feel the need to know all that before asking the final question - what then went through Bush's mind during those seven minutes? Because if there was a real threat - or even an understanding of the actual threat - it would have been taken out of his hands. USSS would have gone in there and bodily removed him from the room and gotten him to safety, mowing down the entire class in the process if they considered it necessary.
(Tim - my comment at the top of this page was in response to the question that was asked about why Bush attended the event at all after the first crash. No-one's doubting he should have done something after the second crash - it's what he should have done and when that's the question)
posted
In this instance, I understand where you're coming from Lee.
I just think that even a single plane flying into WTC is a pretty big event. Big enough for the president to stop and find out what's going on.
But you go ahead and defend Mr. Bush all you want.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jay the Obscure: Jason, a question: Do you think that a plane hitting one of the World Trade Center towers requires presidential attention?
Well it did not when that screwball tried to kill himself that way several years prior (and that's probably the first thing everyone thought of).
It's easy to say (now) that ANYTHING as crazy as that would need direct presidential attention but planes do (occasionally) lose control and crash without terrorist intervention from time to time and I cant imagine that anyone leapt up and knew terrorists had coordinated a massive attack on several fronts at that point.
It's sad, but- today- if a plane crashed near New York, the immeadeate thing would be to go on high alert and assume we're under attack.
As there was not prior precedent, I dont think anyone would have assumed the worst at the first plane's impact (again, many were talking about a possible plane malfunction when the second plane hit).
Really, I dont hold Bush unaccountable for finishing in the the classroom (not that we'll ever know exactly what he was told), but we'll also never know what Gore would have done (or anyone else for that matter).
How do you guys think things would've happened with Gore in Bush's place? Even if he jumped onto the first flight back to D.C., what more could've been done by the president at that time (and with what little plans were in place for a terrorist threat?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: As there was not prior precedent...
What about that plane crashing into the Empire State Building?
Not a terrorist threat though- what did the President do back when that happened? What should he have done, really?
Aside from installing Phalanx on the rooftops of New York, there's very little by way of preventative reaction.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Not a terrorist threat though- what did the President do back when that happened? What should he have done, really?
This isn't WWII and a plane hitting the Empire State Building. Clearly the days we live in are much different.
There is no denying that we live in an age of terrorism.
As a result, I don't think it's unreasonable to say Mr. Bush should have been more responsible to his position as president in assessing the situation of a plane hitting the WTC, again considering the terror-ridden times in which we live, before moving on to a meaningless photo op.
It's hard to say what the impact would have been, if any, his doing so would have had on the events of the day. But National Command Authority resides in his office and a determined president might have been able to cut through some of the confusion.
I don't say its the worst thing he's ever done in not doing so, but I think he should have been more on top of the situation.
I generally side with Lee on this issue; the real problem here is about what Mr. Bush did after being told by Mr. Card about the second plane.
I think his inaction immediately after Mr. Card passed on the information of the second plane hit the WTC represents a rather large failure on Mr. Bush's part.
After the second plane hit the WTC, the events of the day mushroom into something far beyond a simple out-of-the-ordinary accident. It becomes clear that the United States is being attacked, and that those attacks are coordinated. And the president, as Commander-In-Chief is going to have to make some hard decisions quickly to act in defence of the nation.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Funny thing, the US has faced many crises in its past, yet this is the first time I've heard it asked what the losing* Presidential candidate would have done if he had been in the actual President's place!
It's meaningless to ask what Gore would have done. There's a very real possibility that under his leadership the numerous intelligence failures wouldn't have gone uncorrected and the attacks might not have happened. Even if they had, we might not now be embroiled in Iraq (for once I can say 'we' because thanks to Blair we're in this together). Gore certainly wouldn't have pulled that stunt on the aircraft carrier then sat around while the death toll of his own country's citizens creeps up towards a thousand. Then again, maybe we'd be in the same boat - there is a tide, and all that.
posted
Well, under Al Gore, we'd probably still have had 9/11, and Afghanistan, too, if he didn't bore the Taliban into giving up bin Laden with his ultimatum speech. But we wouldn't be in Iraq.
posted
Harrison Ford would have punched his advisor out, carried all the children of the school out on his back, and flown the helicopter back to the White House.
Then he would have punched out the cameraman, and punched out some bystanders, and punched out Osama Bin Laden, because Tom Clancy's CIA is on top of things.
Registered: Oct 1999
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