Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
It's just too damn bad that the very structure of religion is what takes away the barriers against repeating said same evil.
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:What bugs me is that so many of these nitwits seem to think that by making things like abortion or gay marriage illegal, it's somehow going to prevent women from terminating unplanned/unwanted pregnancies or gay couples from committing to each other and living together
Those are not equivalent topics. The legal recognition or lack thereof of gay marriage makes no difference whatever in how people live. The legal status of abortion does. Yes, some women would still find ways to have abortions illegally, but nobody can seriously argue that all, or even most, would. The numbers are just too big.
(And if anyone accuses me of saying anything other than exactly what I just said, as is par for these discussions, you will be ignored.)
quote:I mean, who the hell is she to say her invisible being in the sky is more real or better than someone else's?
Oh, goodness, can't express our belief in an absolute truth, now can we? That would just be horrible!
quote:Everyone base their decisions based on their view of reality, the universe and everything
As can be seen by...
quote:Because religion first started as as way of explaining the unexplainable, the incomprehensible, the scary.
quote:It's just too damn bad that the very structure of religion is what takes away the barriers against repeating said same evil.
You say that as if religion is the cause of most bad things in the world.
Registered: Mar 1999
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
Religion is just like any other institution in that it is often twisted and made subject to the whims, desires, and at times outright malevolence of individuals. That is what begets "Crusades" or "Jihads".
The Bible says: "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:27
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
"You say that as if religion is the cause of most bad things in the world."
Oh, not the cause. More like a very aggressive catalyst.
"Religion is just like any other institution in that it is often twisted and made subject to the whims, desires, and at times outright malevolence of individuals."
You're absolutely right. Religion is just one of the easiest to twist.
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:I mean, who the hell is she to say her invisible being in the sky is more real or better than someone else's?
Oh, goodness, can't express our belief in an absolute truth, now can we? That would just be horrible!
Coming from the Canadian system, not if it could interfere with her potential role as a representative of her own constituents. If she believes so strongly that non-Christians are second-class citizens, then she can hardly be expected to represent them fairly, no?
Besides, one would hope that a public government figure would be held to a higher standard than that.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Lee: When I said I'd like to see the exact current global ratio of believers/non-believers (not to be confused with faithful/faithless) I differentiate between people thinking about life-as-we-know-it as their needs (food, safety, self-development and a social network) have been met, that is to say when they can bring their rational intellect to bear, and on the other hand that universal longing for structure and meaning that you're referring to. The latter is typical for mankind, yes, but it usually emerges when we have current needs or incentives for believing (having a dying loved one, being close to death yourself, doing jailtime or just feeling lonely or lost in general), things that a God or a sentient galaxy or noodly appendage could help/sympathize with.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
While I see Omega's point about honesty, any elected official is duty bound to uphold the seperation of powers. Besides- this is a last-ditch ploy.
Harris' campaign has been laughably in the toilet for months now: all of her senior campaign staff have literally walked out on her.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
The only time you see Jesus get aggressive/phycially violent is in dealing with the moneychangers at the gate to the temple. They were openly cheating the people who were coming to worship. Otherwise he displayed open compassion for sinners, and the outcast and condemnation only for the self-righteous religious bigots who ruled.
"If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" 1 John 4:20 That alone should strike fear in the hearts of those who preach bigotry and prejudice in the name of God.
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Add to that that this holier-than-thou Christian Katherine Harris was (don't know if she still is) having an affair with her Governor Jeb Bush -- who was a married man. Good display of values there... Incidentally, she was the one overseeing the ballot recounts during the 2000 election's disputed results. Real unbiased, huh?
Oh, and Omega, "absolute truth"? Do not go there. Your opinion, your belief, are exactly that, and I have no problem with that. But I can guarantee that no one on this planet agrees with you 100%, even on matters of faith and doctrine. Not even if you had your very own clone. So your "absolute truth" is exactly one person's point-of-view. And if that's true, then that means the other six billion people on the planet are wrong and/or misguided. You may not even realise the ramifications of what you say, but the very concept of "absolute truth" is the very height of unmitigated arrogance.
But I'm going to be a good boy and not write an essay in rebuttal.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:the very concept of "absolute truth" is the very height of unmitigated arrogance.
In that case, there's no point to ever discussing anything. I don't claim I have a monopoly on truth; THAT would be arrogant. But truth MUST exist, outside of all opinion, because the claim that it doesn't is self-contradictory. Even absolute relativists accept the principle of non-contradiction.
Get off your post-modern high horse.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
There has to be truth in any system or everything is only chaos. 1 + 1 = 2 is true in any number system except Base Two where it is 10. It is a different name, but the actual quantitative value is STILL |2|. You can name the value however you like, juxtapose it against an equivalent equation and the value is STILL |2|. Call it "Dos", "Zwei", "два", or "mbili" and the VALUE is STILL |2|. That is truth. Anything else is False or a Lie.
And as ALL politicians know, the BEST lie is the one closest to the truth.
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
So I'm told, but what happens if truth is a lie?
Did you hear about the agnostic dyslexic insomniac? He stayed up all night wondering if there really was a dog...
By the way, I didn't post on my birthday last month, but the absolute value of my age is now |21|! Did I mention that Peter O'Toole is a sexy bitch? Bob Dylan has a new album out today! Woot!
[God can suck my dick...oh wait...no he can't...HE DOESN'T EXIST! PUT TH@T IN TEH PIPE @ND $MOKE 1t!!!!]
posted
Um, just to present a counter-argument to the above, I suggest you do a little research into someone called Kurt Godel and his theories. You are quite welcome to scream at me that Mathematics and it's concept of 'proof' has nothing to do with philosophical truth, but the example of 1+1=2 has been mentioned and personally I think there is an equivalence. But I'm a engineer.
Anyway, essentially, Godel proved that you cannot prove 1+1=2. It is assumed as self-evident. While you have said it is true, how do you know it is true? There is no way to prove it within the current system of mathematics. You can add extra rules to maths to prove such a theorem, but then you have to go off and prove those in a never ending cycle... In the end, Mathemeticians assume a small number of 'axioms' such as 0+x=x, 1*x=x, etc. These are taken to be so basic that no-one can possibly argue with them.
But you can't prove them. And to me, if you can't prove something basic like 1+1=2, how can you 'prove' that God exists, inside our current realm of understanding? I'm alot more comfortable 'believing' that 1+1=2 than I am in a higher power, but as I said, I'm an engineer, and perhaps thinking about the subject too literally. Even if you disagree, I suggest you do some reading on Godel, if nothing else he was an interesting character.
Registered: May 2005
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