posted
Of course, who is to say what is wrong, and what we cannot hear. No, freedom of speech is just that, and nobody can, or has the right to limit or undermine our ability to say what we feel needs to be said.
The last thing we need is a board of Tipper Gores telling us what we can and cannot say. Any type of limitation of what constitutes 'freedom of speech', makes it entirely the opposite.
If you don't agree with what someone says, either do complain louder, or don't listen.
------------------ "This is such an amazingly minor complaint. Does anyone actually watch episodes anymore, or is it just a notebook + pause button exercise these days?" -Sol System on what constitutes modern day Star Trek watching, 02-22-01
posted
This case, just like any case of discrimination by a private entity, should be thrown out of court. A private business has the right to refuse service to any person or group, be they KKK, black, gay, or neo-nazi, regardless of reason.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
If I owned a company, I'd discriminate by religion. Not in the sense of "What's your religion? Oh, sorry, we don't want your type around here.". Rather, if someone wanted special treatment because of their religion, I'd tell them to go screw themselves. Like the example given, if some Muslim said he needed to take a break to go pray, I'd fire him for not doing his job.
Speaking of that, I also wouldn't allow nicotine-addicts extra breaks to smoke. That would be fun. *L*
------------------ "I am slightly disturbed that a news station in the US would use the phrase 'to the max'. What's next? CNN saying 'Totally righteous murders?' BBC News 'Dude, like people were wasted yesterday'. The Times reporting 'Iraq bombed! For Great Justice!'?" -Liam Kavanagh, 22.Feb.2001
posted
That IS a good point. There are about five people in my office that spend about 35 minutes a day, in five minute periods, sucking down dat juice. And all of them say they try to quit once a year, never to succeed. It's so sad, I really hope tobacco companies will start to vanish when my grandchildren grow up. "Insider" was a damned fine custard.
As for discrimination, how can nazis expect NOT to be differently treated after what they've done. Of course, other groups have done foul deeds as well, in the past, but simply stating that you're "aryan" is a stupid move. The term in question doesn't exist, the original aryans were said to be from north india, way back. Myths claimed they had "fair hair and blue eyes", like a genetic offshoot, an evolutionary project, never intended to survive in that longitude. We north europeans simply resemble the description, then some crazy shithead (to quote Eddie Izzard) decides that aryan is the way to go.
Build your own goddamn motel, so that it can be infidel-free, as well!!
------------------ Here lies a turnip god, His fall was not a small one. We did but build his pedestal, A narrow and a tall one.
posted
I find their use of the term Aryan pretty amusing in itself as its a misuse of a sanskrit (or perhaps farsi) term that actually denotes nobility (of actions atn thoughts, not lineage) and has shit all to do with White power. Hell the swastika is actually a Hindu religious symbol that those 'chaps' (read bastards) corrupted. Just like the term Aryan.
*Waits for TSN to make some comment about 'so called' aryans so he can thwack him over the head with a big stick*.
------------------ Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK." - DT.
[This message has been edited by Daryus Aden (edited February 26, 2001).]
But I don't think hotels should have the right to discrimate based on someone's skin color, sexual orientation, political beliefs, etcetra, etcetra. I may not agree to the Aryan philosophy, but they've got as much right to hold a meeting at a hotel as a Star Trek Convention or members of the Republican Party do.
Freedom of speech. Freedom to assemble.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
posted
And what of the rights of the owner of the hotel, huh? It's his property, and he can deny entry or use. Just because an establishment is open to the public doesn't mean it's public property, and thus subject to the same laws.
You make such a big deal about freedom to assemble. What about MY right not to have my property stolen from me? 'Cause if I can't control it, it ain't mine no more. You don't seem to grasp the concept of private property. It means the property belongs to ME, no one else, and I can do whatever I darned well please with it.
they've got as much right to hold a meeting at a hotel as a Star Trek Convention or members of the Republican Party do.
Exactly. NONE. You stay in a hotel by the good graces of the owner, just like any other private establishment.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
Bit hot under the color about this, aren't you?
The decision to keep them from appearing wasn't made by the owner, it was made by one person, an assistant manager or perhaps the hotel manager. The hotel-chain is most likely owned by another corporate entity, so finding one owner would be very hard. Besides, is a hotel even private property in the sense that the property belongs to the hotel, or to the people that pay to rent the rooms at the hotel?
People pay money, they get to stay. In this case, the group paid money, and when management found out they were members of a racist organization, they were discriminated against. That is wrong. It is wrong to discriminate against a group of people because of their political affiliation, even/especially if you don't agree with that ideology.
There's a difference between private property as in "a home" and private property as in a "building with lots of rooms rented out to individuals or groups." Learn it. ------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited February 26, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited February 26, 2001).]
posted
This whole affair has been discussed very professionally and technically. What paragraph allows them to sue, what philosophies speak against them, etc. We must consider the emotional and practical side as well. Do you know how many groups the "national democrats" are against? (That's the name of their party in Sweden...)
If that motel allows ONE "nazi-sympathist" convention then they will lose a LOT of customers in the area who either detest these people or are very afraid to be near them and get stared at or approached. I sure as hell wouldn't pull over, even though I'm swedish, blonde and green/blue eyed.
In fact, we swedes have a kind of inherited (although maybe misguided) guilt sprung from the days when Hitler on numerous occasions praised sweden for being so 'pure' and producing many aryans.
------------------ Here lies a toppled god, His turnip not a small one. We did but build his pedestal, A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited February 26, 2001).]
posted
Besides, is a hotel even private property in the sense that the property belongs to the hotel, or to the people that pay to rent the rooms at the hotel?
Yes, the hotel is private property under the ownership of the owner of the hotel proper. This is a hotel, not a condo. You rent, not buy.
As for whether a manager of a franchise hotel could do as he did here, that would depend on the internal policy of the hotel chain, and upon any contract that the leasee might have signed. We'd have to look that up. But from a strict perspective of rights, a hotel could do this and easily be within it's rights.
Now if the hotel somehow violated a contract that said that they couldn't kick these people out, well, that's another story. They just did a stupid thing by signing the contract, but they'd be bound by it.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
What's the difference between a realtor refusing to sell a condo to a racist group and a hotel refusing to rent a room to a hotel room? Just wondering.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
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