posted
Yep, and since the Secret Service's report shows that:
quote>Although all the shooters were boys or young men, they ranged in age from 11 to 21 and their family backgrounds ranged from intact families to foster families with a history of neglect. Some perpetrators were excellent students; some were failing. Some were popular; some were socially isolated. Very few had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness.
I don't really think good parenting has a lot to do with it. The Secret Service blamed depression more than a particular parenting style. And how do you know that someone is depressed?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
>"Prior to the violent incident, three-quarters of them had either threatened to kill themselves, made a suicidal gesture or actually tried to kill themselves."
That's a pretty damn strong hint.
------------------ The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
posted
Well a person can be predisposed for depression, genetically. There's an old test that I IIRC has credibility; If your ring finger is longer than your index finger you can be susceptible to depression.
And yet, many people (adults, too) in Santee, CA heard the boy threaten to kill people, yet did nothing.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 10, 2001).]
posted
Thus, bad parenting. We can reasonably assume that if many people heard this, his parents were included. And if they weren't, then they probably needed to spend more time with their kid.
And I would point out that none of the factors JK mentioned say anything about the quality of the child's upbringing.
*looks at hands*
Well, guess I'm screwed...
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
I highly doubt that the ring finger thing has any real validity. It reminds me of the "if you hold your right hand out at arms length, and your ring and middle fingers naturally stay close together, you're creative."
------------------ The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
posted
I absolutely agree. Any parents dumb enough to give their kid the code to their gun-safe deserves to be tossed in jail along with them when something like this happens.
quote:And I would point out that none of the factors JK mentioned say anything about the quality of the child's upbringing.
A clarification: those factors were what the United States Secret Service said. This was a report about the nationwide school shootings, not any one case in particular.
quote:...their family backgrounds ranged from intact families to foster families with a history of neglect. Some perpetrators were excellent students; some were failing. Some were popular; some were socially isolated. Very few had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness.
I think this does talk about upbringing (although in a general sense). The very fact that the Secret Service used "intact families" and "foster families with a history of neglect" says that the "intact families" are thus, without a history of neglect. Yes?
And, gee, look at that. Very few had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness. Isn't depression a kind of mental illness?
If children were supposed to have guns, then George W. Bush would've made a law in Texas allowing 6 years olds the right to carry concealed handguns. - Me
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 10, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 10, 2001).]
Sometimes, people and their families can have wide renown for being good and 'intact,' when the truth is quite opposite.
"Intact," in the FBI's report, I'd wager, means nothing more than 'both mother (biological) and father (biological) present.'
My gf grew up in an intact and well-respected family, and you've heard me talk about HER life enough already.
------------------ The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
posted
The kids not being tormented or bullied (as nearly all of those in the report have claimed) may help too. Good parenting or not, if someone is constantly harassed, insulted and generally degraded by someone on a daily basis, it's going to fuck them up. Some people snap faster than others. Just because they take time to plan it out and go through with it, doesn't mean they didn't crack under the harassment earlier. The lack of discipline and "You spanked me for doing something! I'm suing!" shit that's been going on has something to do with it too I think. Both the bullies themselves and the kids they pick on.
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Hmmm. Can anyone here name any of the Columbine victims without having to look it up? Because I was just thinking of this, and the only people I remember are: Klebold and Harris -- the killers.
The reason these kids are shooting each other is because they're "glorified" (sorta) by the nation after each shooting. They become house-hold names, and for those who've been picked on, what better way to be remembered then as someone to be feared? And not picked on?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
posted
Actually, I couldn't have told you the killers' names, either. And if someone had mentioned them out of context, I'm not sure I even would have recognized the names...
------------------ "...I know this board in secret, intimate ways which are beyond your comprehension.... Let's just say that people should *not* be telling me what to do; it should always be the other way around." -"Red Quacker", conspiracy theorist and contemporary lunatic
posted
I've heard that some of the other students at the schools in question act similarly. "Well, I was told my hair looked horrible on channel four, so I'm gonna run home and fix it." "Oh, I just CAN'T be seen on TV with this on." That particular girl came out of her apartment shortly thereafter with short shorts and a tank-top on, much to the appreciation of the cameramen.
The desire for fame is apparently almost universal among our youth. It seems more of a question of how that desire is expressed.
------------------ Disclaimer: "All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities." - `OverTheEdge'
posted
Besides the killer's names, the only thing I remember from Columbine is that story "she said 'yes'" that turned out to be a fib.
Well, okay, not a fib exactly, but they went ahead with the publication of the book and the Christian media blitz even after the guy who supposedly eyewitnessed the incident admitted that what was reported wasn't what happened, and that the girl who said 'yes' wasn't shot.
------------------ The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
posted
Just as a quick point: There's a difference between "conforming", and not looking like a tit.
------------------ "And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!" -Bubbles
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