Obviously, the officer ranks are simple.. they were all established in Encounter at Farpoint.
But on the flag ranks, there were a few wierdnesses shown in season 1-2 of TNG before a system was decided on.. does anyone have any good caps or info on the insignia on: Admiral McCoy Q's admiral uniform (wierd) Admiral Jameson Admiral Quinn & the "Conspiracy" flag officers the Admiral from "Emissary" and Admiral Nakamura in 'Measure of a Man' and also im compiling a tally of admiral ranks from season 3-on to try and see which admirals were which rank (i.e. the Nechayev wierdness)
and I'm also contemplating the compilation of an O'Brien tally -- for how many times he was an ensign or lieutenant before they settled on the warrant/petty officer wierdness of his hollow pip or three chevron insigniae.
does anyone know what insignia the Chief on the Valiant in the episode of the same name had -- i believe she is the only other non-com to ever have insignia besides O'Brien, but i need to look to make sure (Muniz or anyone on Voyager have chevrons?)
and the final question: Kosinski, warrant officer with a single silver rectangle?
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BTW, I've found the relevant passages on the 'Commodore' rank in the 24th century fron the J & G Reeves-Stevens novel Preserver. While some are loathe to consider the Shatnerverse as fitting anywhere near canon, this definition does seem to be plausible and it works.
quote:But the mystery of Commodore Twining extended beneath surface appearances. Even after four weeks at this base, overseeing the repair work on Enterprise, Riker didn't yet know what division of Starfleet the commodore reported.
What he did know was that the man wasn't the commander of the starbase. That was the job of Captain Kev Randle, whom Riker had seen only twice. Neither was Twining's rank even officially part of Starfleet's chain of command. "Commodore" had been a flag officer rank a century ago, but in Riker's experience, today it was simply an informal title given to the senior captain within a group of ship's captains.
However, after the first meeting between Commodore Twining and the command staff of the Enterprise, Data had confirmed for Riker that though the rank was no longer in common use, it did still remain in Starfleet's files, and several personnel currently held it. Unfortunately, the files Data was able to access had not revealed who those personnel were, or which divisions they worked for.
so commodore is still around, but rarely used, nd probably is the as yet unseen one-pip flag rank. and this explains why Janeway raised from captain to the two-pip flag rank, the one pip rank is a rarity and not a 'necessary' stopping point (possibly a long standing system of that too, recall that Jim Kirk didnt seem to have been a Commodore either). Its probably reserved for specially filled positions of senior captains that arent ready to recieve an admiralcy
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McCoy was not seen in uniform, but was only referred to as an admiral... retired perhaps? Q's admiral uniform was a wraparound kind with large gold braiding (dress uniform-like), but no pips. The rest of the admirals in the 1st season had the "regular" wraparound with pips decreasing in size. Nakamura (the only admiral from the 2nd season) had a uniform a little like "Admiral" Picard from "Future Imperfect", the pip design was finalized at that point, but they were worn vertically on the collar.
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Interesting. One typo: your description of the Lt. rank is the same as that of the Lt. Cdr. rank. Another: Cadet section has reverted to Times New Roman font.
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You should also include the Acting Ensign uniform worn by Wesley Crusher before Picard granted him full Ensign status.
If you remember, it was the blue-gray shirt that had the 3 departmental color stripes along the shoulders (Command, Operations, Science) presumably to indicate he was being educated in all 3 departments.
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No, that was his "I'm a happy little Starfleet brat" sweater. His acting ensign uni was the all-grey one with the ducktail at the waist.
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thanks for all the info.. i feel my sleeping pills kicking in so i may not have time to update the page tonight, but the info is being sorted.
Notes: I hates Times New Roman in webpages. It should die. Fixing.
The second season admirals wore a tunic uniform, but with a high white collar, with some sort of odd insignia I believe.. i really need to find a cap or a vid so i can look at it. BTW, there was another s2 admiral, I only recall that it was a female admiral seen on the viewscreen only. It could have been in "Emissary" but I lack precise recollection. Good to know they used the standard admiral bars rather than the odd s1 versions, thanks.
Admiral McCoy was wearing a militaristic jacket, though, with epaulets, the FASA RPG sourcebook used the markings on them to represent an admiral rank (since it was printed before the later admiral uniforms).. are we sure it wasnt intended to be a uniform?
perhaps Q's uniform was an s1 Admiral dress uniform.
anyone with more naval/military knowledge know of a situation that would fit Kosinski's status? would a civilian be given a uniform with an insignia? or would this fit some permutation of a WO or NCO ?
and Wesley's uniform didnt feature any rank insignia, although it does deserve a mention. I'm planning to keep the more intense uniform theorizing separate, in a subsequent article
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quote: would a civilian be given a uniform with an insignia?
Not that I am aware of, but there's no reason Starfleet couldn't, even for just a short time as some kind of failed morale boosting program.
Well, wait, I take that back. Sort of. You know the Surgeon General? He or she is the head of a quasi-military agency called the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps. As they (somewhat defensively) point out, they're a real "uniformed service," but they aren't exactly soldiers. So, perhaps Kosinski worked for some Federation analogue. This would explain his apparent unfamiliarity with such notions as the chain of command.
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quote:and also im compiling a tally of admiral ranks from season 3-on to try and see which admirals were which rank (i.e. the Nechayev wierdness)
Nechayev always had 3 pips during TNG. What else do you need?
quote:and I'm also contemplating the compilation of an O'Brien tally -- for how many times he was an ensign or lieutenant before they settled on the warrant/petty officer wierdness of his hollow pip or three chevron insigniae.
O'Brien first appeared with one black pip in TNG Realm of Fear (Season 6).
quote:and the final question: Kosinski, warrant officer with a single silver rectangle?
Actually he had one solid rectangle and one black rectangle. He was really rude to Argyle and Riker. I'd say he was a civilian and Starfleet gave him a provisional rank for the duration of his assignment.
quote:and this explains why Janeway raised from captain to the two-pip flag rank
But she was a 3-pip admiral.
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Wasn't Wesley's Acting Ensign communicator also silver instead of gold? I'm almost positive it was.
The problem with Kosinski not being in Starfleet is that we've seen Federation science uniforms and such... like the anthropologists in "Who Watches the Watchers".
However, if he had been given a provisional rank and a provisional staus in Starfleet, I guess that would explain his uniform. His general pissiness to superior officers tells me that he had absolutely no fear of getting in trouble nor any training as a junior officer. He was probably given a provisional rank so as to have authority over the underlings in the various engineering departments he would be working in.
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O'Brien also had the single black pip when he appeared in AGT, which I take to mean that he was meant to have it all through TNG, and would have if Blackman found himself in 1988 about to give Colm Meany his first uniform.
The AGTs appearence also confirms that Meaney's character in Farpoint was O'Brien. His appearence in "Lonely Amoung Us" could be counted as O'Brien or not. There's no evidence either way. I suppose it depends if you think that DS9's first season Starfleet security dude also worked on the Enterprise in engineering during "Brothers".
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