Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
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Or spend their lives as lieutenants of astrophysics.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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Member # 709
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wow, true, the 'tapestry' timeline had Lt J.G. Picard spending 42 years in the fleet without even a full lieutenancy
Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Saiyanman Benjita: However, Data, having little ambition (he doesn't have NONE, or else he'd just be another robot), probably led him to keep the status quo. This will pass him over come promotion time almost any time. Data's promotions probably were timed at near the greatest intervals because of his lack of ambition. This is probably the same deal with Vulcans.
Kinda brings up an interesting point.....and and obscure quote from ST6.
quote: "Human rights". Even the name is racist. The Federation is basically a "Homo Sapiens" only club.....
For all the complaints about ST not showing a good coverage of human races (Asians in particular), a more noticeable problem with ST as a fictional universe would be the rather small number of Starfleet alien captains, flag officers, etc. Off hand, I can think of a few Federation presidents, a handful of alien captains (mostly in the movies), an android, two Vulcans, a trill, and a changeling. Pretty dismal stuff conisdering that we've already been through four casts, not including Enterprise.
If it is true that ambition has much to do with advancement in Starfleet, and ambition is primarily a human trait, that brings up a rather fundamental flaw in Starfleet....discrimination against Vulcans, androids, and other species...many of which I'd place much more faith in as captains than some of the incompetent human mavericks we've seen.
(And yes I know that the lack of alien captains and high ranking officers has more to do with money and the realities of television....I'm just playing devil's advocate.....or something)
Registered: Mar 1999
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Member # 709
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well, two out of three presidents, thats 66.6%.. that's more than affirmative action would guarantee..
Registered: Sep 2001
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Umm...you mean two out of the three presidents we've SEEN, I think. There were no doubt a great number of others throughout the years.
Besides, the Presidency and Council (which is obviously made up almost entirely of aliens) are separate from the military---Starfleet (isn't that actually what Azetbur said, rather than "Federation"?)---and as we know from today's world, the military is always a bit more discriminatory than diplomatic bodies.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
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i'm just saying, for all the US is about diversity, and even going so far as to force affirmative action and we've never even had one president who strayed very far from the caucasian male norm.. UFP must have something on us to have two in a hundred years or two.
Registered: Sep 2001
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I think the case regarding what data said may be the standard norm for the average officer. He was to be promoted to first officer of the Ent-E in Nemesis so he evidently had that coming. As far as what he said in "Datalore" regarding the rank schedule, I am assuming it is a sort of "perfect officers" timeline or something. Anyway here is the basic jist of the conversation:
LORE: when can i have a uniform like yours brother? DATA: if you get one the way I did, that would mean 4 years at the academy, 3 years as ensign, and 10 to 12 years of varied space duty at the lieutenant grades.
This of course probably really means nothing as at that point (I dont think the YEAR of TNG was even established), but it would seem reasonable for that to work for him. ASSUMING 2345 was his graduation date (despite his "Encounter at Farpoint" 'class of '79'' reference or whatever) that means 2348 he became some sort of j.g. Lt. (i think startrek.com even confirms this), 10-12 years after that is like 2360....meaning it is quite likely he became a Lt. Cmdr. 4-6 years before TNG, no? Of course then again, Cmdr. Riker apparently made full commander in 7 years, considering LaForge graduated the same year as riker and yet was still only a J.G. the same year Riker made Commander, but then jumped a rank the next two years to follow. Obviously consistancy in rank goes in the same category of the population of Voyager, both of which make your head spin. Anyway, I am not trying to incite an arguement, just seemed since we were talking about rank and I recall that from recently watching that ep. that it would be relavent to place in this string. In anycase, it is fair to say that it is hard to stay consistant with a series from the beginning when you dont have the benefit of retrospect, such as we have reviewing this.
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: and as we know from today's world, the military is always a bit more discriminatory than diplomatic bodies.
-MMoM
Not sure what you mean about "diplomatic bodies" but the military (in the US) has actually on the whole been a bit ahead of the general public on promoting based on merit vice race or gender in my experience....
If you mean the UN - then I concur with your statement....
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Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: I think the case regarding what data said may be the standard norm for the average officer. He was to be promoted to first officer of the Ent-E in Nemesis so he evidently had that coming.
Nemesis $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Ummm... no. Data was not going to be made the first officer of the Enterprise. Picard said he would be busy breaking in his new first officer while Riker was settling in on the Titan, but he wasn't talking about Data. There was a cut scene where we actually saw the new first officer, one Commander Madden, I believe.
The confusing part is where Picard says of his new XO, something along the lines "You've all met him... he's a tyrant..." He seems to be referring to someone present at the gathering... but I don't think he is. He's talking about the unseen Commander Madden.
quote: The confusing part is where Picard says of his new XO, something along the lines "You've all met him... he's a tyrant..."
He was talking about Data. Madden got the job because Data was dead.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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I'm pretty sure that according to one of the canon Voyager books (can't remember the name), Janeway commanded the Oberth-class USS Bonestell, which was destroyed at Wolf 359. (Obviously Janeway wasnt on it at the time...) This would mean that she was a Captain at least 5 years before Voyager started. As she graduated from the academy c. 2356, she must have been promoted from Ensign all the way to Captain in 10 years. That's pretty impressive really, especially as she was originally a science officer, and so wouldn't have been trained very much in command at the academy.
Registered: Jan 2003
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I think it was 'Pathways' or something that states that, which isnt canon.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
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after the whole 'this is canon, this isn't' discussions about Pathways was completed, i though a consensus was reached that she hadn't made the rank of captain until Voyager, but had been commanding officer of the Bonestell at the rank of commander, since it was such a small ship. and that there was a strong possibility that she had perhaps commanded a second Bonestell named in honor ow Wolf 359.. i don't believe Jeri specifically said the Wolf 359 ship, or the fact that it was Oberth class.
Registered: Sep 2001
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