posted
I do wonder how B5 would have done the running traitor thing if they hadn't recast after the pilot. Would whatserface have been a willing traitor (like Garibaldi's aide was), or would it have been a telepath reprogramming thing (like, er, Garibaldi)? And would she have been sneaky in every episode, or just the occasional one?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
Midwinter to the copy-pasteque:
quote:
# Mike: your assessment is pretty much correct. Laurel [Takashima] was to be the traitor initially; as I noted long, long time ago, and you quoted, she was not, in fact, acting entirely under her own volition. There would indeed have been an implanted personality there, acting without even her knowing about it. And it would've been this implanted personality that would've shot Garibaldi.
When I took Laurel off the board, elements of this were transferred to other characters. This is the kind of thing I mean when I say that even with changes here and there, the story continues to go where I want it to go. We don't necessarily remember *which* general put the briefcase with a bomb next to Hitler's chair in the bunker, only that it got done. Some chairs are moveable, some are not, as anyone who's ever written a novel from an outline can tell you...you start moving the chairs around, but you always keep going where you're going.
# Yeah, originally it was the Kosh-scan that would've gotten Lyta in trouble; the TK aspect was originally going to come in from another angle, but I was able to collapse the two in Talia, and then bring Lyta in from a different direction, as you'll see in one of the first batch of new year 3 eps.
# If Laurel *had* stayed with the show, by the middle of year two the fact that she was Control would've been revealed via the password incident. At that point, one particular possibility was that her second in command under her -- a rather dour Russian lieutenant named Ivanova -- would've been promoted to take her place, while Laurel was moved off the chessboard. (This was planned because we knew going in that Tamlyn Tomita had a growing film career, and we probably could've only kept her for a couple of years in the best of circumstances. So why not turn that to your advantage?)
The position now being occupied by Corwin, Ivanova's second, is the position that Ivanova would've held (though more prominently) if Laurel had stayed on. (And no, Corwin doesn't now have that arc lurking in the background.)
See, it's easy to stick to an outline and never diverge if you're writing characters in a novel; in a TV show, with live actors, you have to be flexible, plan ahead, come up with contingency plans, and have threads that weave and interlock in ways to leave you maximum flexibility while still proceeding toward your destination.
# Takashima would have been the one to be Control. A Psi Corps plant. (Her background on Mars would've been the perfect time for it to have happened.) When Laurel went away, I took that one thread and passed it along to Talia, setting it up as early as the very first episode, when Talia and Ivanova first meet, and later reluctantly have a drink.
posted
See! Now there is an example of what I'm talking about. A long-range plan. Stories that will keep viewers tuning in week after week wonder what will happen next.
Not episodic stories that are entirely told in an hour.
Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Not to derail the topic, but wasn't Seven one of the few things that Voyager actually did well?
Well, only relatively to the rest of the show. I guess the point I was trying to make was that at one point in the show, TPTB said something like "The show needs better ratings. You should throw in a sexy character." Then someone else went "Oooh, wouldn't it be cool if she was a Borg?"
Then they did and they kept her in a catsuit for that reason and instead of trying to integrate "being sexy" as a trait essential for the plot, they just left it there. So the hook becomes she's a Borg (which should have name recognition to the casual ST fan) and completely separately she's sexy (which brings in the people who wouldn't care about the first).
So in this train of thought, if TBTP force you to introduce a random character (e.g. Keffler, the top-gun-esque character or Number 6) the least you can do is try to incorporate it in a way necessary to the plot.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Maybe people went mad for a bit, but "Emissary" + "Rascals"? As a series? Isn't that a bit like doing a show about, I don't know, the circus, only instead of circus performers all your main characters are big steaming piles of partially digested meat, and instead of a circus it takes place in the darkest depths of hell, with a soundtrack recorded in a surgical suite that's running low on anaesthesia?
I mean, I guess I can imagine a worse show, if maybe the actors came by your house every week and spit blood down your throat.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I mean, I guess I can imagine a worse show, if maybe the actors came by your house every week and spit blood down your throat.
Oh, a Klingon comedy.
Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
posted
I would rather see Enterprise come back after a few years (if possible) rather than introduce us to a new crapshoot of characters.
Riker\/Titan seem to be the next best offshoot series, if any. Have some sort of mixed cast from whoever is left over and available from TNG, DS9 and VOY. The big question would be what the premise of the series would be about -- that is, of course, the problem regardless of the who or when....
Or even, to pacify those interested in post TOS...resurrect the Enterrpise-B for a series, thats a big hole to fill. For that matter, ressurect the Enterprise-C for a series. Afterall, the finale is already written.
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
TV Shows don't have to have an OVERALL arc - like B5. TNG didn't Didn't do THAT show any harm. The Key is being faithful to the characters and developing (story ideas will flow from there - look at DS9), throwing tid-bits of information in here and there, and coming back to various story lines that work.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
Sol, I said that it would be the opening sequence of the series... not the entire premise. It is designed to introduce a younger lead actor as the main star of the series. You can't exactly have an actor like Chris Carmack command a Federation starship like the Prometheus without somewhat of a plausible (if not via a previous plot device) explaination.
I imagined the admiral having to deal with being 121 years old and be physically in his 20's again. How will you be taken seriously by other Starfleet officers? How would your friends adjust to your second chance at youth? Can a crew take an admiral who looks like an A&F model seriously under stress? How would you deal with the fact that one minute you planned on going to Risa to retire and the next minute you now have a chance to do what you didn't get a chance to do the first time in your career?
As for the Prometheus backdrop, the admiral designed the Prometheus after surviving Wolf 359.. . And all of the Prometheus' external registry was changed by the shipyard staff as an inside joke to the admiral's previous command... at least that's how I would explain the 59650/74913 fiasco.
I have a general idea on how the pilot episode sets up the entire series... unfortunately there's no way in hell TPTB will accept some of the concepts in the series like having the admiral gay or a CGI character like M'Rex or even having a ship designed for war and having an entire command crew try to figure out what to do with it during peace time and how to try to go back to space exploration or normal life even after the Dominion War.
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
It isn't the age reduction thing that I'm reacting to, though in this context I have to admit I think it's pretty goofy; just the "Rascals" reference. It's like. . . well, I have used up my store of over the top similes, but it is like saying "Hey, I'd like to do something that's a lot like this other thing that happens to be the worst thing that's ever happened."
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: As for the Prometheus backdrop, the admiral designed the Prometheus after surviving Wolf 359.. . And all of the Prometheus' external registry was changed by the shipyard staff as an inside joke to the admiral's previous command... at least that's how I would explain the 59650/74913 fiasco.
1/ This is why fans shouldn't write Trek shows. Explaining the Prometheus' registry shouldn't even enter the head of someone trying to come up with a concept for a new Trek series.
2/ Slightly overstated use of the word "fiasco", isn't it?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: TV Shows don't have to have an OVERALL arc - like B5. TNG didn't Didn't do THAT show any harm. The Key is being faithful to the characters and developing (story ideas will flow from there - look at DS9), throwing tid-bits of information in here and there, and coming back to various story lines that work.
No, they don't. But what TPTB have done the last 4 years hasn't worked. Counting VOY, many would say it's not worked for the last 11 years. Why not try something different?
All the positives I've heard about the DS-9 era have centered around the story arc concept. If that's the case, then why not take what works and use it.
TNG didn't have arcs. TNG is also nearly 20 years old. Fans of Trek now weren't born or were just babies when TNG premiered.
Times change. Story telling needs to change as well
Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
posted
I don't think that the story arc concept is the only "positive" that DS9 had. Strong characters, well written stories, and "OMG BIG SPACE BATTLES" all helped. And to be honest, I think calling DS9 an "arc driven show" is fairly inaccurate. They were pretty much just making things up as they went along, and the majority of the episodes were fairly standalone.
And in any case, I don't recall DS9 setting the world alight in the ratings, so saying that it "worked" is also possibly being a bit generous.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
My Namesake, Grand Admiral Thrawn, was a character in a series of Star Wars novels who was a master strategist leading the Empire in a last act of resistance against the New Republic. I believe this concept could be addapted to trek, set in the early 25th century and the Federation has finally succumb to the Dominion after Odo turned bad following the murder of his beloved major Kira. The Remnants of Starfleet are wandering the outer Rim desperately trying to survive, when a messiah arrives, one of the Federations finest Fleet Admirals, A Vulcan who has embraced emotion and has been on a long journey of self dicovery in the far reaches of the galaxy. He must unite what is left of the Alpha Quadrent forces, and aided by a 'deepthroat' the last section 31 operative alive in the collaborating federation council, must plot the destruction of the Dominion War machine.
-------------------- The disappearance of Donald Love
Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic