Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
I never did like that design, primarily for the nacelle placement.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
quote:Originally posted by Shik: I never did like that design, primarily for the nacelle placement.
Didn't Jason make a model of this design (i know i saved the clip art in my pics. I save everything! Bruhahahahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahha! *cough, cough*
Still, i'm sure they are discuing it to no end JUST WHAT they could do to a Speculative TNG-R. Certainly, folks would want this (You still get royalties for even a remake/edit/special ed-addition stuff, right?)
posted
I think the "Nebularized-Ambassador" would have been a bad idea for two reasons. First, it's way too big a ship to only have had a small crew of mutineers for Riker & Pressman to have escaped from, and second, the Ambassador design (and any variants thereof), would have been outdated even during Riker's time as an ensign. This was supposed to be a prototype ship whose technology was integrated into the GCS.
I also think that the Cheyenne class would have been a bad idea, if only because now we'd have to start calling it a Pegasus-class ship instead of a Cheyenne.
However, both ships above would still have been better than the Grissom model they ended up reusing. I mean, couldn't Greg Jein have just made a quick wrecked model for this one scene? It wouldn't have even needed to be complete, since half the ship would be hidden. He did it before in "BoBW" and "Hero Worship."
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:I also think that the Cheyenne class would have been a bad idea, if only because now we'd have to start calling it a Pegasus-class ship instead of a Cheyenne.
I can think of at least six ways around that one. The most obvious being that there were say 2 or 3 Cheyennes in the prototype phase and the Pegasus was only the 2nd or 3rd one built for the GCS system trials. By the time the trials were over and the class went into production as a ship in it's own right the class was named for the first of the prototypes...or using the name Cheyenne was a part of the political hush-up of the Pegasus incident.
I think using the Cheyenne would be a fine choice, certainly better than the Oberth.
quote:Originally posted by Shik: I never did like that design, primarily for the nacelle placement.
Didn't Jason make a model of this design (i know i saved the clip art in my pics. I save everything! Bruhahahahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahha! *cough, cough*
Still, i'm sure they are discuing it to no end JUST WHAT they could do to a Speculative TNG-R. Certainly, folks would want this (You still get royalties for even a remake/edit/special ed-addition stuff, right?)
Indeed.
As to making this design The Pegasus from this design, it works in that it's a believable testbed for Galaxy technology (moreso than a freakin' Oberth abyway) but the small crew aspect does not fit. I suppose they could have made the loss of the ship a really well-known event where only a few people survived (kinda a Titanic sorta thing).
Mr Sternbach is now a member at SSM and said he likes this model- a BIG feather in my personal hat.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
I've got the perfect explanation for all the confusion, and why the Pegasus appeared to be such an old, crappy Oberth: perhaps, in addition to the cloaking device, Pressman was also testing out a prototype of the Shipclasschangeatron!
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: By the time they made the Pegasus's engine room set, it was supposed to be a Cheyenne.
This is one of those things that has long been and keeps being repeated, but where is the evidence of it? (Aside from the four "nacelles" in the engineering display, I mean.) Where has anyone associated with the show mentioned the name Cheyenne in connection with the Pegasus? I'm not just trying being argumentative, I'd honestly like to know if this is a fanon legend or something more substantive.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Your right I've never seen any indication of that the Pegasus was supposed to be a Cheyenne besides that display. Furthermore, the Cheyenne was just some kitbashed model used for the Wolf 359 scene. I doubt that they would use any of those models again.
Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
posted
I think what happened was that someone saw that display and
a) first guessed that it represented four nacelles, and
b) assumed that it meant that the ship was supposed to be a Cheyenne class, since that was the only 24th century-era ship to have four nacelles.
Also, the only rationale I can think of for the Grissom-type ship was that Starfleet Intelligence purposely built the ship to look like an old Oberth for camoflauging purposes. I find it hard to believe that Starfleet would still be building Oberths in the late 24th century, no matter what rationale you can think of as to why the class is so long-lived.
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Almost immediately after I posted above, I began to develop a sneaking suspicion that I had gone through this in more detail before. So I ran a little search and, sure enough, BINGO!:
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Topher: The Pegasus was supposed to be a Cheyenne class vessel. The script reflects this, even the sets reflect this. But when they couldn't build a detailed Cheyenne model in time, they used the Oberth model (also, the Crazy Horse was also supposed to be a Cheyenne, thus the 5xxxx registry).
This is only partially correct. It is true that the Crazy Horse, after being mentioned by name only in "Descent, Part I" (TNG), was listed by Okuda as Cheyenne-class and assigned a registry of NCC-50446 in the first Star Trek Encylcopedia and only later appeared as an Excelsior in "The Pegasus" (TNG). It is also true that the Pegasus herself was originally intended to be a new design of ship, but it was not that of the Cheyenne Class. Rather, it was an Ambassador-derived design, as can be seen in this sketch by Rick Sternbach. When this was not allowed by the budget, the Oberth model was used instead.
While it is true that a display on the Pegasus Engineering set appears to show what might be four nacelles, I know of no official record citing a connection between the ship and the Cheyenne design. The display may indeed have been created by Okuda, one of the very few people on staff who would have had any idea what the Cheyenne looked like, (or even that it existed, modelled by Ed Miarecki and named by Okuda himself for use in "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II" [TNG]) but no other evidence for the oft-repeated fandom tale that the Pegasus was supposed to be a Cheyenne exists AFAIK. No TNG script makes any mention whatsoever of "Cheyenne class" in reference to any ship, nor does any episode's dialogue, although another Okuda-generated display from "Redemption, Part II" (TNG) establishes that the class does exist and that the ship from BoBWII (the Ahwahnee) was of it.
Unless anyone has further evidence in support of the claim, I tend to think that this little urban legend got started through confusion between the established background stories of the Pegasus and Crazy Horse, which both coincidentally culminated in the same episode, perhaps furthering the confusion.
-MMoM
P.S. I forgot to mention that a further point which might have contributed to the Pegasus-as-Cheyenne theory is the fact that her registry number (NCC-53847) is of comparable range to that of the number assigned to the Crazy Horse (NCC-50446) in the Encyclopedia, where (as mentioned) the latter was also listed as a Cheyenne.
-MM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Well, it is now. What Peregrinus means is that when "The Naked Now" was filmed, Mike Okuda created a dedication plaque for the U.S.S. Tsiolkovsky, with the registry of NCC-53911, and the class called the "Oberth," after Hermann Oberth, a famous German rocket scientist. Both Okuda and Sternbach were going under the assumption that the Tsiolkovsky model, once it was built, would be a newer class of ship (but not as new as the Enterprise-D). That's why the registry number was so high.
Unfortunately, in post-production, the decision was made to use the old Grissom model from ST:III, since TPTB didn't want to spend money building a new model. This caused three problems: 1) The registry for the model was now way too high for a ship of that age, 2) "Oberth" was now synonymous with the Grissom model when it was meant to represent another class of ship, and 3) they didn't bother to relabel the model from when it was used as the Grissom, so even though the dedication plaque has a five-digit registry number, the model only had three.
Even worse, as the show went on, Okuda did start to relabel the movie models to represent other ships, and every time the Grissom model was used again, it was relabeled with an insanely high 5XXXX registry number.
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Almost immediately after I posted above, I began to develop a sneaking suspicion that I had gone through this in more detail before. So I ran a little search and, sure enough, BINGO!:
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Topher: The Pegasus was supposed to be a Cheyenne class vessel. The script reflects this, even the sets reflect this. But when they couldn't build a detailed Cheyenne model in time, they used the Oberth model (also, the Crazy Horse was also supposed to be a Cheyenne, thus the 5xxxx registry).
This is only partially correct. It is true that the Crazy Horse, after being mentioned by name only in "Descent, Part I" (TNG), was listed by Okuda as Cheyenne-class and assigned a registry of NCC-50446 in the first Star Trek Encylcopedia and only later appeared as an Excelsior in "The Pegasus" (TNG). It is also true that the Pegasus herself was originally intended to be a new design of ship, but it was not that of the Cheyenne Class. Rather, it was an Ambassador-derived design, as can be seen in this sketch by Rick Sternbach. When this was not allowed by the budget, the Oberth model was used instead.
While it is true that a display on the Pegasus Engineering set appears to show what might be four nacelles, I know of no official record citing a connection between the ship and the Cheyenne design. The display may indeed have been created by Okuda, one of the very few people on staff who would have had any idea what the Cheyenne looked like, (or even that it existed, modelled by Ed Miarecki and named by Okuda himself for use in "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II" [TNG]) but no other evidence for the oft-repeated fandom tale that the Pegasus was supposed to be a Cheyenne exists AFAIK. No TNG script makes any mention whatsoever of "Cheyenne class" in reference to any ship, nor does any episode's dialogue, although another Okuda-generated display from "Redemption, Part II" (TNG) establishes that the class does exist and that the ship from BoBWII (the Ahwahnee) was of it.
Unless anyone has further evidence in support of the claim, I tend to think that this little urban legend got started through confusion between the established background stories of the Pegasus and Crazy Horse, which both coincidentally culminated in the same episode, perhaps furthering the confusion.
-MMoM
P.S. I forgot to mention that a further point which might have contributed to the Pegasus-as-Cheyenne theory is the fact that her registry number (NCC-53847) is of comparable range to that of the number assigned to the Crazy Horse (NCC-50446) in the Encyclopedia, where (as mentioned) the latter was also listed as a Cheyenne.
-MM
I looked at that display for the Pegasus and the nacelles look nothing like the one's on the Cheyenne. Hell I don't even know if those were nacelles on the display.
Furthermore, I find it interesting that the Grissom model was mislabeled "Oberth"-class. Assuming a new model was built, we would then find ourselves calling the Grissom model a Grissom-type Starship or just Grissom-class Starship.
Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
