Look, obviously Enterprise isn't physically the only ship in the fleet. But it's the only ship that matters, because it's the only ship that can really go anywhere.
Registered: Mar 1999
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When they mentioned the 'old' Neptune class, I couldn't help wonder if there was a mythology thing going for class names. Will there be a Ikarus class?
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Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:And, if you're trying to make some distinction between the Starfleet of the ENT-era and the one from all the other shows, none exists. At least, not in the minds of TPTB or the writers.
Now, where did you get that from? Was there an interview?
IMO the "new" class/registry-scheme is a strong indication that Earth Starfleet is different from Federation Starfleet. Even some novel writers think that there is a distinction between these two organization.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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The same novel writers that once had O'Brien call Odo "mate"?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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"Com'on pay attention guys, Daedalus is Federation... not Earth Starfleet. It can't be around for a while yet."
So, in 2161, upon the formation of the Federation, all ships in Earth's Starfleet will be totally scrapped, and the Federation's Starfleet will be built completely from scratch?
Registered: Mar 1999
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"Com'on pay attention guys, Daedalus is Federation... not Earth Starfleet. It can't be around for a while yet."
So, in 2161, upon the formation of the Federation, all ships in Earth's Starfleet will be totally scrapped, and the Federation's Starfleet will be built completely from scratch?
I agree with what TSN isn't saying here . Earth Starfleet is an integral part of what becomes the Federation Starfleet. Much as Earth becomes the capital planet ("heart") of the Federation, the term "Starfleet" becomes the personae of the Federations conglomeration of starships. As all of the "fleets", i.e. Vulcan vessels and Andorian vessels as well as Earth vessels became integrated into a single Federation fleet (a combination of presumably these forces), a single entity known as the "Federation" Starfleet is formed...it just so happens to have a Earth term applied to it as the Federation starfleet is probably not composed of JUST Earth derived vessels as we see in the later series.
OR...the planet Earth maintains the only Federation-wide fleet and that is why they still maintain their original term of "Starfleet".
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Registered: Jan 2003
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"Com'on pay attention guys, Daedalus is Federation... not Earth Starfleet. It can't be around for a while yet."
So, in 2161, upon the formation of the Federation, all ships in Earth's Starfleet will be totally scrapped, and the Federation's Starfleet will be built completely from scratch?
TSN... not to be totally disrespectful, but if I didn't know you any better, I'd call you stupid.
It's been a long held belief of mine and many other people that the Daedalus is the first Federation starship venture---
Earth's Starfleet isn't scrapped either. Another long held belief is that the Earth fleet was slowly integrated with the Federation fleet--- accounting for the earlier NCCs before the Daedalus came along. And Earth's wasn't the only fleet that joined up either. But it seems that Earth was the more proactive than any other, Archer seems to heavily indicate this proactive nature... wanting to create something like the Federation [anything to do with his time travels?].
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
Your post implied that ships of Earth's Starfleet and ships of the Federation's Starfleet are mutually exclusive sets. Your "long-held belief" really isn't important. Just because you think, by way of zero evidence, that the Daedalus wasn't a pre-Federation ship, that doesn't mean anyone who thinks otherwise is automatically wrong.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I don't see any problems with Daedalus-class starships in Earth Starfleet. The class-name jives with the class/registry-scheme but so does Neptune-class.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:And, if you're trying to make some distinction between the Starfleet of the ENT-era and the one from all the other shows, none exists. At least, not in the minds of TPTB or the writers.
Now, where did you get that from? Was there an interview?
IMO the "new" class/registry-scheme is a strong indication that Earth Starfleet is different from Federation Starfleet. Even some novel writers think that there is a distinction between these two organization.
Spikey,
To my knowledge, NO ONE serving in ANY official or creative capacity on the show has EVER so much as suggested that the Starfleet of Enterprise is in any way a different Starfleet from the one we've always known. Not Berman, or Braga, or anyone else. And it is clear (to my eyes, at least) that they are not treating it as such in the series. It is the same organization we've always known, albeit with a few things to be refined over the years.
As I recall, the notion that it was somehow a different organization that just happened to have the same name was a FANDOM conception that arose right here ON THIS VERY BOARD, as a way of rationalizing the the then-brand new series with the ERRONEOUS idea that Starfleet was founded at the same time as the Federation, which had come down as conjecture (that which you yourself are usually so fond of debunking) through the Chronology and Encyclopedia, and was NEVER stated on screen. (The only way it was ever suggested was the 2161 founding date on the Starfleet Academy banner from "The First Duty" [TNG], and all that *really* tells us is that '61 was the year in which the ACADEMY was established, not necessarily Starfleet itself.)
Starfleet is Starfleet. True, at this point it only comprises Earth ships. Does that make it a separate entity from the Starfleet of later times? No. True, it appears that it employs a different registry scheme. Does this mean it's not the same organization? No. These are things that will indeed likely change with the founding of the Federation, but does that mean that even after these changes occur it's a whole other agency? No.
Earth has always been portrayed as central to the structure of the Federation. It is the capital. The office of the President and the chambers of the Federation Council are located on Earth. Starfleet Headquarters and the main branch of Starfleet Academy are on Earth. The vast majority of Starfleet personnel are human. The vast majority of Starfleet ships have human names. The official language of the UFP is English. It would seem to be clear that Earth is the single most important player within the UFP. (Of course, that's not necessarily something we all like, and I'm not saying that's a desireable thing, but historically that's how it's been portrayed.) In ENT, we're already seeing this role develop in that Earth is beginning to act as a mediator in the Vulco-Andorian war.
Given the above, it makes perfect sense for Earth's space force, Starfleet, to absorb (at least partially---there's no concrete proof that UFP member worlds don't still have some defense forces of their own in addition to being protected by Starfleet, even in the 24th century) those of the other founding members when the Fed is incorporated in '61. (After all, if the capital is to be on Earth, why not make use of the instellations already in place there?) Not be absorbed by some newly-created organization that just happens to be called the same thing.
Obviously, that last paragraph is my personal view on the subject, but I think the indications are that TPTB are looking at it in essentially the same way. (Not that they've even thought it through as much as I just did, but they're certainly not differentiating between SF in 2151 and SF in 2371, beyond the fact that there are less ships around.)
And, as a final note---though I know that these things don't carry any real weight with you, the article on Federation starships in the January 2003 Star Trek: The Magazine has the following quote:
quote:From "Introduction to Federation Vessels," page 32, paragraph 1: "Starfleet began life as a purely human organization, operating a variety of warp vessels including Enterprise NX-01. However, it came into its own with the formation of the Federation in 2161, and since then has been responsible for thousands of ships."
This of course is not canon (by your definition) and *could* conceivably be superceded by onscreen info at any time. However, I believe it represents the "official" viewpoint. (Meaning it won't be.)
Take it as you will.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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"The vast majority of Starfleet personnel are human. The vast majority of Starfleet ships have human names. The official language of the UFP is English."
None of these things would seem to be true. We simply haven't seen "the vast majority" of Starfleet's ships or personnel, and no one's ever said anything about an official UFP language.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Sol System: "The vast majority of Starfleet personnel are human. The vast majority of Starfleet ships have human names. The official language of the UFP is English."
None of these things would seem to be true. We simply haven't seen "the vast majority" of Starfleet's ships or personnel, and no one's ever said anything about an official UFP language.
We've seen a fair cross-section of ships and people spanning two centuries. That's a large sample group to judge from. The trend is clear.
And I'm fairly sure that "Federation Standard English" has received a mention once or twice, and then there's the little fact that largely every document and display is *written* in it...
Registered: Jun 2001
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This amazing heap of evidence of course somehow precluding any sort of translation software in use, or multiplicity of languages, or anything else.
Registered: Mar 1999
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
. Earth Starfleet is an integral part of what becomes the Federation Starfleet. Much as Earth becomes the capital planet ("heart") of the Federation, the term "Starfleet" becomes the personae of the Federations conglomeration of starships. As all of the "fleets", i.e. Vulcan vessels and Andorian vessels as well as Earth vessels became integrated into a single Federation fleet (a combination of presumably these forces), a single entity known as the "Federation" Starfleet is formed...it just so happens to have a Earth term applied to it as the Federation starfleet is probably not composed of JUST Earth derived vessels as we see in the later series.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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