posted
Okay, here are two bastardizations of SJ graphics to show how I think the torp deck and the general neck area *should* look. Trivial concerns like actual set dimensions should not stand in the way of things. Deck 14 layout Explanation as to why I say "Deck 14"
The torp deck layout supposes that the torp casing is a good 2m/6' yardstick. Dimensions roughly match those perverted by yours truly from the ERTL model. Or then they don't.
The neck area cutaway is the SJ one, modified to show both the Torp Deck and Main Engineering moved aft. The forward turboshaft (shown in red) connects the two hulls and goes between the actual torp tubes. It has a station at the forward end of the "oops" corridor that lies forward of Main Engineering (and thus gives a raison d'etre for that corridor). The aft one is shunted to starboard below Deck 14 but centered above that deck. I tried to avoid horizontal shafts within the neck since there would be little room for anything else there...
The portholes in the neck area are shown. The uppermost row means SJ must be wrong with his "separation line" thing. I replaced the separation charges with a new deck, and shortened the ramp, so that the portholes would be logically positioned. This means Torp Deck is Deck 14, and Scotty and pals were on the Loading Deck in ST6. (I envision that the corrugated-metal box in the middle of the set covered the hole through which torps are lowered to Deck 14...) Alternatively, I could have eliminated the whole "separation deck" altogether, which in retrospect would probably have been smarter - the upper porthole row seems to be too far down now...
Blue areas mark deuterium/antideuterium flow areas. I placed a big tank where there are no portholes in the neck, to make this look more like a TNG ship. The AM pods are now below the Arboretum, and eject through one of the painted-on hatches down there. The core goes through the Arboretum (the light show is VERY pretty, and the ferns just love it!), and the core shaft aft wall coincides with the former Cargo Hold forward wall - the only change in the Cargo Hold is that there are no pockets for containers (yellow) in the forward wall (which was never seen in the movies anyway).
What else? Oh, yes, the purple areas are all dedicated to deflector machinery. I think it should be *bulky*. This also excuses the long corridor between Main Engineering and the turbolift, sort of.
The vents on Deck 13 aren't for torpedo exhaust here. They are for purging the main deuterium tank. And the "Jeffries Tube" thing had to go because I said so.
posted
One thing I noticed looking at those plans and the cutaway is that the forward turbolift tube runs right past the torpedo storage area and between the two torpedo launchers.
This doesn't strike me as a particularly clever place to put a torpedo launcher, as all it would take is a malfunction or a weapons strike to detonate the entire torpedo area and disable access (except through jefferies tubes) between the command and engineering sections of the ship.
This is not a comment on the designs you have drawn, by the way, just a general thought on the design of the ship (putting your torpedoes in the thin bit connecting the two halves of the ship).
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posted
There's a plus side to that arrangement, though.
Torpedoes are physical munitions. They also appear to pose the same problems as moving an occupied coffin - the size, the weight, the delicate handling. How are they brought to the torp deck area?
The natural way would be to bring them aboard through the docking hatches conveniently placed on the torp deck. However, there are no floor or ceiling rails there to facilitate torpedo transfer. And if torps are stowed one deck above, then how do they get there from the docking level? The central torp crane won't be very practical for that, with that railing and all...
If, OTOH, torps were moved around on trolleys that fit in corridors and turbolifts, then this lift placement would make great sense. Direct delivery of torps to the magazines! (The lifts could be just *barely* wide enough for the task. Or then inert torps can be stored vertically.)
The neck is a vulnerability in battle in more ways than one. Admittedly, it's risky play to position vital yet kaboomy things there - like turboshafts, torpedo magazines, fuel tanks, or the FRIGGING MAIN ANTIMATTER REACTOR OF THE SHIP! I suppose the two porthole-free vertical stretches of hull plating there are some sort of armor, for the reactor core in the Probert original, and for the turboshaft and the magazine in my bastardization.
posted
I'll admit that putting it near a turbolift is a good idea - easy access for vital maintenance in a battle - but surely there are more places in the ship near turbolifts?
As we saw from the Reliant battle, torpedo launchers can and will go boom in a battle, regardless of armour, and I dont see how putting them near such vital access tubes and technical areas can serve any practical purpose.
Now at the bottom of the engineering hull, or the bottom tip of the saucer, that would make sense.
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posted
I guess the torp launchers could also need direct antimatter feed for arming the torps, so all the eggs would be in one basket anyway. The farther you outrig the launchers, the longer and more vulnerable your supply lines become.
If the torps have antimatter inserted just before they are loaded into the launcher, it would both provide a reason for the torp bays (someone would need to insert it, I suppose) and mean that the torp storage area contains antimatter-less and therefore inert torps.
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posted
I like it, but that's the first idea I've seen, that didn't have the deflector crystal directly above the intermix shaft in Engineering.
-------------------- joH'a' 'oH wIj DevwI' jIH DIchDaq Hutlh pagh (some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps in the morning) The Woozle!
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quote:Originally posted by Timo: Blue areas mark deuterium/antideuterium flow areas. I placed a big tank where there are no portholes in the neck, to make this look more like a TNG ship.
Yeah, but that's a pretty skimpy load of deuterium, don't you think? Granted, the original design had even less storage, but that's not an error one needs to perpetuate. If the ship uses a Mark One Sternbach Foam-Dilithium Pressure Vessel with Distributed Annihilation [tm], I'm not sure there's a need for the deuterium to be injected from above (though it is on Voyager). I like the idea of having the deuterium and antideuterium both at the bottom on this ship, mostly because that's the only place there's unused room.
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: I hadn't thought of that. It makes sense.
If the torps have antimatter inserted just before they are loaded into the launcher, it would both provide a reason for the torp bays (someone would need to insert it, I suppose) and mean that the torp storage area contains antimatter-less and therefore inert torps.
Doesn't "Mr Scott's" state this very thing? I need to pull that book back out and peruse it again. Pretty certain it does state this. Regardless, this is how almost all munitions are stored wherever possible. The USAF stores all missiles and bombs w/o the fuses. While this does not make them inert (they've still got explosives in them), it likely would make photorp's inert w/o the antimatter. However, an argument might be made for the propellant being an explosive device, which might or might not be the case - perhaps they've perfected a miniature A/M drive for the photorps.
Of course, all of this is pure speculation, but I like it! Great job on the call-outs, Timo. Seems there's some honest, objective thinking in this thread.
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
In ST:VI we see difinitive proof that they can correct their trajectory, in ST:III we see the standard casing also used for a coffin, making them multi-purpose. Not to mention, the ease at which they swap-out guidance and sensor elements in ST:VI That would mean that the probes that they launch occasionally (in TOS and TNG) also use torpedo casings. That would make sense, having a universal launch system.
-------------------- joH'a' 'oH wIj DevwI' jIH DIchDaq Hutlh pagh (some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps in the morning) The Woozle!
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posted
We also see in TNG that they have warp capability, because, as I recall, K'Ehleyr traveled in hibernation in one in the TNG episode "The Emissary". It's my suspicion that they've had a warp field generator of some sort which would allow them, if programmed or the "mother ship" were travling at warp, to travel faster than C since the TOS Movie Era days, tho I have nothing with which to back that supposition up.
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quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: We also see in TNG that they have warp capability, because, as I recall, K'Ehleyr traveled in hibernation in one in the TNG episode "The Emissary". It's my suspicion that they've had a warp field generator of some sort which would allow them, if programmed or the "mother ship" were travling at warp, to travel faster than C since the TOS Movie Era days, tho I have nothing with which to back that supposition up.
I agree. It seems likely to me that they can travel at warp, but not accelerate to it. This would explain how they can work when a ship is at warp and yet appear to be really really slow in episodes and movies.
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Timo: Okay, here are two bastardizations of SJ graphics to show how I think the torp deck and the general neck area *should* look. Trivial concerns like actual set dimensions should not stand in the way of things. Deck 14 layout Explanation as to why I say "Deck 14"
The only probelm I have with this is that the only canonical evidence we've seen as to the deck numbers is the Red Alert digram in TWOK, which clearly indicates that the two decks in the widest part of the saucer are decks 5 and 6, not 6 and 7.
Then again...where's Deck 78?
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I suppose the two porthole-free vertical stretches of hull plating there are some sort of armor, for the reactor core in the Probert original, and for the turboshaft and the magazine in my bastardization.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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