posted
First, apologies for my lately-come response. My internet connection got whacked yesterday morning.
Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote: Where is this idea that Mitchell would be older than Kirk coming from? What ever suggested it, even discounting the age on his file?
Gary Lockwood is younger than William Shatner by six years.
From the novel, as I said. Age is never specifically mentioned, but Mitchell repeatedly addresses Kirk as "kid," and although they are depicted as close friends rather than mentor/student, Mitchell is portrayed as being the more mature and wiser of the two, and Kirk is more often taking Mitchell's advice than the reverse.
And Lee Kelso is a closet Egyptologist.
quote:Hope I haven't seemed overly confrontational in this post.
Not at all. I just disagree with you.
Re Voyager, my reasoning goes something like this:
P1: Factoid from Voyager contradicts something I like.
P2: Voyager sucked.
C : Voyager factoid can be ignored.
It may not be deductively valid, but it works for me.
And as for novels vs. TV as source material, I assume you don't favour the latter because you believe TV is an inherently superior medium, but rather aired episodes have some official stamp of approval that novels do not. I can't agree with this, because it's based on the assumption that TPTB know better than I do what is or is not a good addition to the Star Trek universe, and this is patently untrue.
Kidding aside, I do believe in evaluating contraditing ideas solely on merit, regardless of source. But that's my thing. By sharing my opinions I'm not trying to force them on anyone else, but rather offering them for others to use if they like, just as I swipe other peoples' ideas when I like them. Like the ideas, I mean, not the people. Not that I necessarily don't like the people. But this is getting silly. I'll shut up now.
Originally posted by Timo:
quote:As regards the ST2 Starfleet personnel, I think we should note that even though this was a training cruise, not everybody aboard would be a rookie! When Kirk asks Scotty whether his "cadets" could handle a little training cruise, he omits the fact that perhaps 80% of the crew is actually "veteran" already.
When I say, "I'll shut up now," of course what I mean is, "I'll start talking about something else."
On what do you base the idea that the Enterprise had a full regular crew on board? My impression was always that she had had been assigned to the Academy as a training ship, and had only a skeleton crew of regulars on board to train the cadets. Remeber McCoy's line about putting an experienced crew back on the Enterprise? Most of the crew in the background are wearing training uniforms.
(A nice detail in the "Khan shoots up the engine room" scene is that all the people grabbing oxygen masks are experienced crewmen.)
quote: And Peter Preston need not be a trainee at all. [SNIP]
Way to think outside the box.
But I can't agree. #1, he's wearing a trainee uniform. Note the red collar. And #2, "engineer's mate" is usually an enlisted man's job (as Manticore pointed out).
Besides, being the green as hell newb is the whole point of his role in the film. Along with Saavik, he puts a face on Spock's "trainee crew," who would otherwise be nameless extras in the background, ignored by the audience except as window dressing for the familiar main characters.
IHMO, the "midshipman" reference is the screw up. He's an enlisted trainee on his first cruise.
quote:Originally posted by Dat: 3rd Lieutenant doesn't really fit in with Trek officer/enlistee rankings.
I know it may not fit with the Trek rankings, but it does fit with the equivalents in some of the navies of today (which use "1st lieutenant" and "2nd lieutenant" instead of "lieutenant" and "lieutenant, j.g."). Hence the "or something like that" part in my original post.
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
The Dutch Royal Navy has a Third Lieutenant rank. It's equivalent to Ensign. Second Lieutenant is equivalent to Lieutenant JG, Second Lieutenant (Senior Grade) to Lieutenant and First Lieutenant to LT-Commander. Then there's even a Captain-Lieutenant rank, equivalent to Commander.
posted
Why does "Lieutenant" always look wrong when spelled out fully?
So does the Dutch navy not have a commander rank at all? Does it go First Lt -> Capt-Lt -> Capt?
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quote: Why does "Lieutenant" always look wrong when spelled out fully?
Your boring trivia minutae for the day:
A lieutenant was originally an assistant to a senior officer, back in the days when commanders were too aristocratic to be bothered with things like training, provisioning, or barracks discipline. Between battles, while they were off intriguing at court, they left behind a tenant who would oversee matters in lieu of them.
German Navy ranks are also odd compared to RN or USN ranks. They have Captain Lieutenant > Corvette Captain > Frigate Captain > Captain.
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I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
one thing i noticed when writing an article on rank in Star Trek:
we know that the rank of Lt. JG exists in Trek, we've seen the insignia on almost all the uniform design schemes, i've seen in mentioned in novels & publications, but is there any canonical mention of the term 'junior grade' ? in either dialogue or in a background readout somewhere??
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Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Was it said in "Tapestry"? I'm sure I've heard it once.
quote:Originally posted by Spike: I always thought the British use "L'tenant" for Army officers and "Leftenant" for Navy officers.
Where on earth would you get a silly idea like that? Did you never watch Blackadder Goes Forth?
In any case, no-one says "l'tenant." "Loo-tenant" is closer to the American pronounciation.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: one thing i noticed when writing an article on rank in Star Trek:
we know that the rank of Lt. JG exists in Trek, we've seen the insignia on almost all the uniform design schemes, i've seen in mentioned in novels & publications, but is there any canonical mention of the term 'junior grade' ? in either dialogue or in a background readout somewhere??
Um, what else would it stand for? Juniper grove? Jaded geek?
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