quote:Did the Republic ever have a military? Because at the end of the movie they show Vader and Palpatine on the proto-star destroyer we also see non-clones in the gray uniforms from Ep IV-VI and Scorpius as Tarkin. On a second viewing of Ep III I noticed Commander Cody had the same kind of red/blue square rank insignia seen in the OT.
I was thinking about this today and wanted to respond in greater detail.
A large bit of the plot of "Attack of the Clones" had to deal with Palpatine's being granted power to raise a "Grand Army of the Republic". While the Clone troops certainly formed the start of that military force, there's nothing to suggest they made the entire military up by themselves.
As we saw in "Revenge of the Sith", clone troopers were sent to reinforce local planetary militaries of systems loyal to the Republic. Also, in a scene I think cut from "A New Hope", Red Leader tells Luke that he flew with Anakin during the Clone Wars -- a telling hint that Republic forces used non-Clones quite extensively.
Of course, the biggest clue to this is - as you pointed out - that at the end of the film, the Emperor and Vader are present on a starship bridge crewed by non-clones.
posted
I just saw it. I cant believe I'm typing this but....
It was fantastic.
The only (minor) flub I caught was Obi Wan and Yoda (in the Jedi Temple) referring to Papaltine as "The Emperor" when he's just pronounced the Republic as the "First Galactic Empire".
Though mabye they had a TV on while walking among the bodies. (shrug)
It sure looks like a young Tarkin on the bridge of that starship bridge at the end- glad I'm not the only one that thinks so.
Looks like clones still do whatever the highest ranking officer tels them with no concept of loyalty or right and wrong. Fuckers shot that Jedi woman long after she was dead.
I greatly enjoyed Palpatine's story of his mentor and how he could use the force make Midichlorian "create life".
A lot is unsaid about Anakin's own origins there methinks. From that telling, it seems as though Palpy's master was keen on preserving life- mabye the Sith were not all dickheads?
Really nice parallels between Palpy's lines after Duku is killed and Mace Windu's likes to Anakin about "he's too dangerous to be allowed to live".
It showed that the Jedi had indeed compromised their principles- if Mace had followed the Jedi Code, everything would have been changed for the better.
But then, I always thought Mace was a dick.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Was talking about the movie today - mulling/discussing/arguing/agreeing/contemplating etc.
1. The first half of the movie was AMAZING. The Second half was too rushed and was almost as if Lucas though "Oh shit I have to wrap some things up here."
2. Eps 1,2 and 3 don't shit on 4,5 and 6.
3. Episode 1 and 2 should have been condensed down into just the first movie - and episode 3 should have been expanded out into episode 2 and 3. Episode 3 suffered due to episodes 1 and 2. The whole turning of Annakin seemed a little too... quick. He did it to help Padme but at the same time he just gave everything up? Hmmm and the whole power mongering thing - too quick - 2 and 3 should have dealt with this as completely different movies - i.e. episode 3 stretched out.
Get rid of the Pod races and Gun Guns of ep 1. Have Annakin as a boy for about 1/2 hour of ep1 with a different Padme actress then bring in Christensen and Portman. Have them marrying from the end of episode 1. etc.
Great, but could have been better.
These comments are TOTALLY undigested - just wanted to get them down in some form.
Andrew
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
The film seemed determined to shoot itself in the foot at times. That scene where Anakin walks in on the kids and ignited his lightsabre had me going "oh fuck, no..." But then they ruin it by using "younglings" later on. If you're going to kill kids, say so. Don't make up a silly word to semi-diguise it or whatever the point was.
The dialogue was often a big cringeworthy, but "so this is how liberty ends...to thunderous applause" was a really good line.
Ickle Haydn was much better this time around. Possibly because he had to do less lovey stuff, and possibly because he had evil red contact lenses. But I was much more into his character. Likewise Obi-Wan at the end did a good job of showing his dispair at being forced into battle with someone he used to call a friend.
Surely everyone who hasn't seen "The Clone Wars" will be confused as to why Grevious is coughing. (And on that, isn't that another example of Windu sailing a little too close to the Dark Side. He does do a variation on a Force Choke on Grevious, after all.)
Half my friends liked the "nooo", half hated it. I was just glad he didn't drop to his knees and raise his fist at the ceiling, screaming "why god, why!?"
The opera-type scene between Palpatine and Anakin was great. Palpatine's dialogue where he talks of the Sith lord who had found the secret of creating life and who was then murdered in his sleep by his apprentiece was the best piece of acting in the film. The way Palpatine made you know that it was him in a subtle but obvious way was sublime. His "are you threatening me" line was also great.
Overall, I'm the exact opposite of Andrew. I thought the beginning was rushed and the final 30 minutes were great. Obi-Wan/Anakin at the same time as Palaptine was throwing the council chambers at Yoda was excellent. Loved it when Yoda walked in and just threw Palpatine's guards against the walls, and the contrast when the previously indestructible little green dude was almost knocked out by the Emperor's force lightning.
All in all, better than I thought. My opinion might go down after I've seen it again, but at the moment...I liked it.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:Surely everyone who hasn't seen "The Clone Wars" will be confused as to why Grevious is coughing.
Subtle my words are.
Grevious spends the final season of the cartoon kicking Jedi arse, including Shaak Ti who one of my mates hates for some reason. Anyway, just as he's about to escape with Palpatine Windu races up to him. He pulls out four lightsabres, but Windu just reaches out and crushes Grevious' chest. The good general then decides to beat a hasty retreat into his ship. And this, I assume, is why he's coughing throughout Revenge of the Sith.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
Windu's very short fight with Grievous was at the very end of Clone Wars. As Grievous is loading Palpatine into his ship, Windu uses the Force to crush Grievous' torso.
Edit: Curse you, Liam!
-------------------- "Kirito? I killed a thing and now it says I have XPs! Is that bad? Am I dying?"
-Asuna, Episode 2, Sword Art Online Abridged
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quote:Looks like clones still do whatever the highest ranking officer tels them with no concept of loyalty or right and wrong.
Jason,
I got the feeling that the Clones had been "programmed" (for lack of a better word) so that when they recieved 'Order 66', the programming would kick in and take control of them ... I mean, it isn't like we're talking about conscripted troops here who can form their own ideas of loyalty, and who might have resisted an order to kill their Jedi Generals -- with the Clones, it was like someone threw a switch from "Serve Jedi Generals" to "Kill Jedi Generals" ... remember, the Clones were grown to be subservient to their leaders, and since Palpatine arranged their creation, it makes sense he'd make them ultimately loyal to him alone.
quote:"Serve Jedi Generals" to "Kill Jedi Generals"
But they got served...
Liam:
quote:His "are you threatening me" line was also great.
Yes, and the "Treason it is, then!" that came next, reminded me of a Tai-Pan boss from "Noble House". He carried himself with so much more authority in this movie compared to the previous two movies where he's a kind uncle, Clement Attlee-like.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
Palpatine == most rotten evil bastard ever.
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Looks like clones still do whatever the highest ranking officer tels them with no concept of loyalty or right and wrong.
Jason,
I got the feeling that the Clones had been "programmed" (for lack of a better word) so that when they recieved 'Order 66', the programming would kick in and take control of them ... I mean, it isn't like we're talking about conscripted troops here who can form their own ideas of loyalty, and who might have resisted an order to kill their Jedi Generals -- with the Clones, it was like someone threw a switch from "Serve Jedi Generals" to "Kill Jedi Generals" ... remember, the Clones were grown to be subservient to their leaders, and since Palpatine arranged their creation, it makes sense he'd make them ultimately loyal to him alone.
Well, at least they were not addicted to white goo in neck-tubes.
Ol' Palpaltine just cut out the Vorta middlemen and passed the ass-kicking along to the Jedis directly.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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So, I saw it, and liked it, and then didn't like it, and then liked it again. It basically suffers from all the flaws of the prequels (no sense that there are any normal people involved, as opposed to superheroes and villains; sad, sad misuse and/or neglect of R2 and C-3PO), but is bombastic and fast-paced enough to make you overlook this.
Anyway, why again was it that only the last of the "dark and edgy" prequels managed to be dark and edgy?
And the Wookie sequences felt like they had no purpose other than to make sure some Wookies were in the movie.
And there was no trailer for Serenity! Just, what, Lord of the Rings 4: The Jesus Lion? (TAKE THAT OXFORD.)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Oh, and what I was really, really hoping for but didn't get: I wanted C-3PO and R2-D2 to be the ones who somehow defeated Anakin on the lava planet. Like, maybe they withdraw a bridge or something at a crucial moment. I just wanted them to recognize that Anakin was evil, I guess, and make an independent moral choice. Plus it might save us from Kenobi's curious decision to just leave Anakin there rather than, I don't know, actually killing him. You might say he couldn't bring himself to do it, but he had no way of knowing that someone would come to rescue him, so he was killing him anyway, and in a far more gruesome manner.
I also wish we would have gotten a little hint of the Rebellion at the end, to go with the Death Star shot.
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quote:Anyway, why again was it that only the last of the "dark and edgy" prequels managed to be dark and edgy?
What do you mean? The first two episodes were set in a time before the Empire, of course they wanted to show how things had been when the Senate was in existence and the Jedi were on top of their game. The old trilogy is what's dark and edgy, bounty hunters and swamp dildo monsters everywhere.
The only remotely serene and prosperous thing we see in the OT was Cloud City, in my opinion. But that got shot to hell too when Vader disrupted their business with his troopers and then started to tear up the place, smashing windows and throwing boxes around him.
I liked seeing Naboo and the Jedi temple in their prime, and although I hated Dexter's Diner initially it has grown on me as it showed a place in Star Wars where one could grab a comfy bite while being on the Core Planet. It did have a function for establishing atmosphere.
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