posted
Back to an older question: I was just talking to someone and they said that they had read somewhere that Sifo Dias was Palpatine's first Sith apprentice who got sabered by Maul before the events of Episode I. Is this in some EU material?
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posted
My impressions are that a smart Sith Lord is always bringing up a new apprentice to assasinate the current #2 before they can administer the same prescription for insomnia relief ol' Palpy gave his Mentor.
Perhaps the Emperor actually knew about Luke all along and was planning from day one for him to take out Vader and be his #2. Then he could've used Leia to take out Luke and on and on.
Just how powerful was Luke and Vader? We get the hints that Anakin was like a SuperJedi or something but we never really see Luke using a lot of Force power. He even had trouble recovering a LightSabre that was 4 feet from him. I don't think from what we see in Eps 1-3 that Luke was much beyond that kid that was trying to fight his way out of the Jedi temple while Organa was there. Maybe that was what Palpy wanted, someone a lot less powerful to be behind his back.
Sounds almost....Klingon....
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
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He hadn't met Yoda yet as of Hoth and it seemed few could learn to master and figure out the force powers and resources without a master.
His crash course at Dagobah was probably very demanding and he seemed to be physically well-prepared to face Vader at Bespin, just not emotionally or psychologically ready. In Luke's defense I'd say that anyone facing Vader mano y mano without prior experience (Kenobi having tutored Ani from snotnose-stage) would get rather demoralized by the dark side swerving around and through Vader.
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I definitely agree w/your assessment, Nim'. Luke was powerful, but untrained as of Hoth. As to seeing the Jedi do lots of Force power-stunts, how often did we see other Jedi levitating things just to show their power? It seemed stuff along those lines was only done as practice or in the midst of combat or an emergency. Perhaps it was the discipline of the Jedi not to "show off"?
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I got an answer to the Sifo Dyas question from someone who knows pretty much everything about the EU. Here goes:
"Who is Sifo Dyas? The reason they left this out(it was originally going to be explained by Yoda when he and Obi-Wan deactivated the Temple transmission), was for time, and also, the novel that immediately preceeded the movie, titled Labyrinth of Evil, dealt almost exclusively in that question. In the novel, Obi-Wan and Anakin lead an assault on Cato Nemoidia (which Obi-Wan mentions in the film "That business on Cato Nemoidia doesn't count"), to capture Nute Gunray. Gunray escapes, but in his haste, he leaves behind a holonet receiver which is specifically tuned to get messages from Darth Sidious.
Basically, the novel deals with Obi-Wan and Anakin hunting for Sidious, and in the process, unraveling the mystery of who ordered the Clone Army. First of all, Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi Master. It seems, Qui-Gon Jinn, Count Dooku, and Syfo Dyas were all good friends, and all held similar beliefs in the failing of the Republic, and each defied the council in small ways when they saw it necessary. Qui-Gon believed that the Jedi were losing touch with the Force, and regularly ignored the council when the Force led him another way. Dooku was obsessed with antiques and Sith artifacts, and Syfo-Dyas believed that the Republic could be reformed and was worth saving.
After the Trade Federation blockaded Naboo, and Qui-Gon first confronted Darth Maul, Syfo-Dyas sensed the Dark sides power growing, and a great conflict coming. While Qui-Gon was escorting Queen Amidala to Naboo, Dooku and Syfo-Dias created a plan. They pieced together that a Sith Lord was manipulating the Trade Federation into starting a war. Syfo-Dias would secretly begin to create an army that would be totally loyal to the Republic to fight off this threat, and Dooku, with his immense knowledge of Sith artifacts and history, would hunt down the Sith Lord. So, Syfo Dias ordered the Clone Army from the Kamino, arranging payment through the Jedi Council (without their knowledge), and telling them to start setting up, and a Template would be provided later.
Then comes the betrayal. Supposedly, the death of Qui-Gon is what essentially sent Dooku over the deep end. Afterwards, Dooku either found Sidious, or Sidious found him. Either way, Dooku became the new apprentice and spilled his guts about their plan. The first act Dooku committed as a Sith was to return to the Jedi Temple, erase Kamino from the archives, and murder Syfo-Dyas, erasing all evidence of the Army. The murder of Syfo-Dyas, supposedly caused by a heated arguement between the two regarding Qui-Gon and the Republic, is what caused Dooku to be expelled from the Jedi Order (It's not something the council does lightly.) Dooku finds Jango Fett, and delivers sends him to Kamino, with a single modification to the Clone Programming, the inclusion of Order 66 (It is worth mentioning that the initial prototype clones, the ARC Troopers, do not follow Order 66 because they do not have any of the 'Docile' training to make them follow orders.)"
Now... this brings up 2 questions:
1) Was Sifo Dyas really a member of the council or did he just lie to the Kaminoans to appear to have authority? If he was really on the council, you'd think he would've been in the room in Ep 1.
2) If Mace and the Council knew Dooku had killed Sifo Dyas, why did Mace dismiss the idea of his involvement in Amidala's assassination attempt by saying he used to be a Jedi and that such things were not in his character. True, he was talking about assassination, not in-the-heat-of-the-moment manslaughter, which is what he thinks happened... but it's still rather positive thinking on Mace's part.
posted
If "the business on Cato Nemoidia" made it into the movies from that book, it must be one of the more credible of the EU-books, no? Sounds like good summer reading, though I wish I had stopped reading your post at "then comes the betrayal". :.)
[ June 09, 2005, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Nim' ]
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NIm- I dont buy the "balance to the Force thing.
I dont agree- the Old Republic at the time of Anakin's turn to Hepatitis- was corrupt, ineffective and already under the influence of a Sith Lord, countless had dies in the Sith Lord's pointless war and one entire race of the Seperatists sounded like a Charlie Chan inpersonation.
Then the Jedi get wiped out and it's supposed to be "balance"?
Naaaa.
Aban, that book's explanation is waaay to convienent- besides, why would the death od Dooku's pal lead him to become a Sith- replacment for the guy that offed his friend no less!
I find it tough to believe Sifo Dias was alive in Ep I.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Jason: You're misquoting me, I didn't say the old republic was alright, I said that the Jedi Council was alright. They were unable to adapt fast enough to the threat due to having been so cleverly infiltrated and having their enemy as a boss, but they were not a destructive or negative influence on the galaxy.
quote:countless had dies in the Sith Lord's pointless war and one entire race of the Seperatists sounded like a Charlie Chan inpersonation.
Why are you dragging the Nemoidians and the casualties of the Clone Wars into this? I was responding to Andrew's question about the Chosen One "bringing balance to the force". It pertains to the Jedi and the Sith.
Also, DAMN! Lay off the sauce! Vodka-stained fingers may dissolve the lettering on the keyboard (surgeon general), if you're not careful you'll be moping tomorrow.
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My understanding is that Sifo Dias meets his untimely end either shortly before or during the events of Episode I.
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quote:Originally posted by Nim': Jason: You're misquoting me, I didn't say the old republic was alright, I said that the Jedi Council was alright. They were unable to adapt fast enough to the threat due to having been so cleverly infiltrated and having their enemy as a boss, but they were not a destructive or negative influence on the galaxy.
quote:countless had dies in the Sith Lord's pointless war and one entire race of the Seperatists sounded like a Charlie Chan inpersonation.
Why are you dragging the Nemoidians and the casualties of the Clone Wars into this? I was responding to Andrew's question about the Chosen One "bringing balance to the force". It pertains to the Jedi and the Sith.
Also, DAMN! Lay off the sauce! Vodka-stained fingers may dissolve the lettering on the keyboard (surgeon general), if you're not careful you'll be moping tomorrow.
DAMMIT! I NEEED some "sauce right now! I cant believe that "bring balance to the force" only pertains to the Jedi/Sith equation. Yoda and Obi Wan describe the Force as "an energy field that's in all living things", not just in a few indivuals. That means that an "imbalance" might not have anything to do with either the Sith or Jedi if the galaxy is in the moral crapper.
The cahrlie Chan aliens were noted for their unintentional comedic value only.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
And my angle was that the eradication of the Jedi and the subsequent passing of Yoda, Palpatine and Vader served as a great Force dispersion and reabsorbation.
Or just maybe the prophecy faltered and the rebalancing never happened, as it supposedly should have if Anakin had had a good upbringing and become the youngest Jedi Master ever.
That the "bringing balance to the force" would concern all things in the galaxy feels to metaphysical an explanation to me. It's easier to think of the Force as it influences and is influenced by the people we've seen having rapport with it these 20+ years.
Besides, I don't think Palpatine was blood-thirsty enough to have killed enough people during his reign to top what amount of Force was eschewed during the Jedi Purge. I do believe the balance pertained to the Jedi.
As with Sauron, Palpatine didn't want the death of all things but control of all things and free reign to ordain it as he saw fit, oh and absolute fealty naturally.
Be that as it may, I think the galaxy was more subjugated than scorched. What's more, Palpatine could've reestablished an empire of the Sith and started training force-sensitives like in the Golden Age of the Sith, sending out Sith hotheads to screw up the neighborhood like drunken, horny soldiers but he didn't, he kept to the "two horse town"-recipe.
Had there been more Death Stars, though, it would've been worse, I suppose. The destruction of Alderaan should've been the most terrible and tragic event in all of the six movies, it is a pity it was dealt with so anticlimactically. "*Zap-poof* oh my aching bones I have to sit down a bit".
And Leia, why wasn't she screaming like a Banshee, tearing her hair and clawing after Tarkin, trying to gouge his eyes out and bite off his nose?? She had just cause.
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Yeah, Leia's lame reaction to her planet (and "dad"!) getting destroyed sucked biiigtime. More Lucas directing. Even if they had her faint- it could have been explained as a "force sensitive" thing later.
I think Alderan's destruction would FAR outweigh any Jedi deaths- we're talking at lests "millions of souls snuffed out" here.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Possibly. If I were to go nixpicky and subjective, though, Yoda's physical and mental reaction to the Jedi being slaughtered was far more manifest than Obi-Wan's in ANH.
And the Jedi that died were very far away from Yoda, compared to Kenobi who was just a few hyperspace-minutes away from Alderaan.
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I think that was more because Yoda knew them: much in the way even a non force-sensitive like Padme knew Anakin was losing it. YOda probably worked with and trained most of the slain Jedi for years.
Obi Wan's reaction was like suddenly learning of a huge disaster and deathtoll at a place you've never been to: disturbing, but not as shocking as someone you know getting killed.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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